Thumb Wars: Ep 40: Pre-3: Nintendo, Sony, & Microsoft, 9.8 out of 10 based on 10 ratings

Thumb Wars: Ep 40: Pre-3: Nintendo, Sony, & Microsoft

Welcome back to the discussion show where we introduce the debate and you continue it. This week’s topic: Shaun & Austin predict Nintendo & Sony’s E3 prospects & rage against the dying of the Xbox.

As promised here is the full The Legend of Zelda: Clockwork Empire post by Dresden Codak creator Aaron Diaz. Check it out if you have yet to do so. You will not be sorry.

Thumb Wars is a weekly show hosted/produced by Shaun Kronenfeld dedicated to starting and encouraging dialogue and debate on a wide variety of topics within the video game industry. Look for a new Thumbs Wars every Sunday. Comments, opinions, and thoughts are not only welcome, they are the entire point. Feel free to follow Shaun on Twitter @bigred_13 if you feel so inclined.

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Shaun K.

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  1. June 10, 2013 at 02:21pm
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    for me least for PS I think we all can agree we are BEYOND fed up with waiting for KH3 thats the one they’ve held over our heads for way to long we need it NOW

    second they’ve hinted at it and its loomed over our heads a few times so Majora if your gonna remake OOT you have to do its twin and do Majora though I swear if they give that game a Master Quest thats gonna call home all the expert zelda players

    that game was hard enough regular style can’t imagine them doing a master quest but I”m sure fans of it will love the challenge

    and if Microsoft ever stops being so arrogant I would like to see them remake the original Fable now with their advancements in technology that RPG could be fun or how bout a Prequel to Fable

    that would be fun to see them do a prequel of Albion as Will himself battling the Twinblade members other then that more Zelda would please me

    • June 11, 2013 at 09:49am
      In response to Keara
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      Then worry not. Tetsuya Nomura himself announced that KH3 was in development, and gave us a teaser that included a few seconds of gameplay.

      It as at that moment that PS4 won the console war.

  2. June 10, 2013 at 09:37am
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    Microsoft: dead to me.
    Nintendo: Still need a wii u but do want to get one and im looking forward to seeing new stuff on smash bros and zelda.
    Sony: Hopeing they dont fuck up bad in the reveal today but they do seem to be learning from the past and xbones fuck up so hopefull. As for games well the new final fantasy course and i bet there gonna annouce or reveal Uncharted 4 for ps4, just fits lol. More on infamous second son too would be cool , that game looks so good. I loved the first 2 infamous’s.

    • June 10, 2013 at 09:47am
      In response to ryuknight
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      I do hope though that sony will be smart and focus on the GAMES not the app shit. Also i am kinda leary on the share button and packeged ps eye but the button does just seem to be a weird gimmick sofar and hopefully the eye is just for small little gimmicks and not the all seeing spyeye that the kinect two is.

  3. June 09, 2013 at 11:19pm
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    In the video, you guys believe that Microsoft had “stopped caring” about their consumers in the past 2 months? I’d argue against that, not for them not caring, but the “2 months” part. I’d argue it’s more like 2 or so YEARS, pretty much ever since the Kinect, came out, really.

    Ever since they began marketing for Kinect, they’ve stopped caring about their consumers and, instead, trying to beat Nintendo at their own game (casual market). Look at the past 2 E3 shows they’ve done. Both times, you can sum them up with the following statement:

    “Here’s a bunch of Kinect garbage you don’t want. As for stuff you do? Um, well… *digs down into the bag* oh, here’s another Halo/Gears game for you. That’ll hold you till next year, right?”

    Hell, RAISING XBox Live’s price after the PSN began showing they were just as capable in many ways as XBox Live should have been a hint enough that Microsoft cared more about making money than making friends with their consumer base.

    I’m honestly just glad all the XBox fanboys finally have the wool pulled off of their eyes thanks to the last couple weeks and see the monster they’ve been feeding.

  4. June 09, 2013 at 09:20pm
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    Declaring the XBone doomed is all fine and dandy, but… is nobody else concerned about the possibility that Austin is right and it won’t actually fail miserably? I mean, there are a ton of dudebro gamers who won’t care about any of this. Or simply people who won’t research about it, maybe because they intend to just gift it to friends or family. Or hell, people who might actually want what it has to offer, however unlikely that might seem now. I don’t know, the mere fact that the possibility exists kinda scares me. Consumer rights are basically dead and buried at that point.

    • June 09, 2013 at 09:29pm
      In response to Bust3r
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      • June 09, 2013 at 09:39pm
        In response to Austin Yorski
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      • June 09, 2013 at 11:54pm
        In response to Austin Yorski
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        This is soul crushing. To tell everyone you know since the news came out to not buy this just to read that, ruined my day. I think i just hate people now. Do people use common sense? If you want an all in one thing just buy an apple tv or something idk.

      • June 10, 2013 at 12:21am
        In response to Austin Yorski
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        …who pre-orders a console? Especially this early, with no prices and hardly any games announced for them?

        • June 10, 2013 at 09:53am
          In response to Zevox
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          The console cycle would not work without early adopters who buy consoles on blind faith. If everyone were like me, and waited at least a year after launch, no console would ever get the 3rd party support to attract buyers in the first place.

          Personally, I’m not worried about XBone sales. Initially, it *will* do well. Most of the recent launch flops (PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Vita) had some initial sales out of the gate, but nothing to keep them selling afterward. The XBone will sell well through Christmas 2013, but come Q2 2014 it’ll be a tough sell.

    • June 09, 2013 at 11:50pm
      In response to Bust3r
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      I’m not saying its not going to sell, because we all know it will simply on the Xbox face value. However I feel it will be a strange reversed repeat of the Wii last generation.

      Tons of people buying this because of previous experience and buzz hype. But then after some time these common consumers start to realize all the hidden problems.

      For the Wii, it was the lack of games similar to Wii Sports that weren’t simple cash-ins by Warners Bros, EA and others. Those people just had no interest in titles like Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Kong, Smash Bros etc.

      But for the Xbone, it will simply be the lack and restrictive nature of the console. Parents will go an try to purchase a used game and find out they can’t. Kids will try to sell the previous COD for the new one, and they’ll realize they won’t. So all the game sales which slowly peter off and die, unless MS decides to change.

      This will probably apply separately for companies like EA and Activision who on the PS4 will probably enforce their similar policies as 3rd parties rather than through Sony directly.

    • June 10, 2013 at 12:18am
      In response to Bust3r
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      That concern definitely exists. Though I’d say that the “dudebro” gamers are probably more likely to care about all this than not, since that demographic if anything seems more likely than most to be the type that sells games when they’re done with them (unless I’m simply reading too much into what little knowledge I have of them, which is quite possibly I suppose).

      But consider that if it enjoys initial success because of people being ill-informed, then it’s success won’t last long. Once those ill-informed people run afoul of the new restrictions, they will be angry, and probably plenty ready to trade in for a PS4. And even if it enjoys decent success long-term, it’s likely not going to be because of gamers, but because of its other features that Microsoft seems to have decided are going to be the main focus of their advertising for it. So long as the PS4 then proceeds to succeed at least as much, and Sony is made aware that it does so because of gamers who were disenfranchised by the XB1′s policies, we should be fine.

      • June 10, 2013 at 01:00pm
        In response to Zevox
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        That’s a fair point, but I’m not entirely sure that it would deter the former in any way. Those guys are like diehard iphone users; they have to have the latest yearly sports or CoD game and they have to have it now. We’ve all seen it happen and numbers suggest there’s no shortage of them. And if EA/Activision/Capcom throw the weight of exclusivity behind Microsoft because they want to support the DRM… yeah, the thought is not pretty.

  5. June 09, 2013 at 04:07pm
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    I’m very interested in seeing what the WiiU Zelda will be, mostly because the head staff (and I think Miyamoto himself) have stated several times that Skyward Sword will be the last “traditional” Zelda title, whether he means console or this includes LTTP2 I don’t know.
    And then there are supposed rumors saying they’re maybe co-op, which if there is I’d hope would be story driven and have lets say Link and Zelda working together to save the kingdom, but not in the Spirit tracks way.

  6. June 09, 2013 at 09:13am
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    With everything Microsoft is doing I’m worried that at some point I won’t be allowed to play any of the downloaded games I have on 360 anymore, I thought this before but I thought at best you’d be forced to buy an Xbone in order to play the games downloaded on 360 but now?… do you think they would cut access to 360 games with everything going on?

    • June 09, 2013 at 10:39am
      In response to profrojoe719s
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      They’d have to sneak a 360 firmware update in to add internet check-ins to the 360. As dumb as Microsoft is I don’t think they’re that stupid. Besides, they’re too busy thinking up new ways to screw Xbox One owners to do that.

  7. June 09, 2013 at 08:24am
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    Sony has the resources to charge $30 a month for PS+ and deliver on the services to make it worth it. They’ve got Gaikai they could run a backwards compatibility streaming service with, they could add an online rental service, they give their customers freebies. Sony can make the PS4′s online component a juggernaut, even if they probably won’t push the envelope.

    That said, I am most interested in the F2P MMO’s on the PS4, if only because it changes up the console scene.

    And Microsoft is, indeed a lost cause. When the XBone makes the Wii U’s launch look strong MS might change things up, but until heads roll Microsoft won’t do anything.

    Nintendo really needs to at least show some concept art for Zelda Wii U. Most of Nintendo’s first-party properties–like Mario and Donkey Kong–can’t capitalize on the hardcore base, and Zelda is the major exception.

    But Zelda does need a fundamental change-up, and using Zelda as the playable character (again) may indeed be the key. The problem is that the classic items and dungeons from vintage Zelda just make for dull gameplay.

  8. June 09, 2013 at 12:50am
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    Dare I say, Zelda looks better with a hood than Link does in a floppy dunce cap. I think Ganondorf should be replaced with a new character, otherwise the concept looks like a winner!

  9. June 08, 2013 at 11:19pm
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    In regards to keeping Team Ninja away from the Metroid franchise: are you aware that everything that was wrong with Other M (it’s writing, dialog, story, setting, etc.) was completely the fault of Yoshio Sakamoto from Nintendo, and everything that was right about it (the gameplay, which I think is a perfect transition from the 2D-style of Metroid) was thanks to Team Ninja?

  10. June 08, 2013 at 11:04pm
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    Nintendo – This is where most of my attention is focused right now, honestly. I want to see a Smash Brothers trailer that gives a glimpse of the actual gameplay and reveals a few new characters to look forward to, I want a release window (preferably date, but I won’t be picky) for Bayonetta 2, I want some idea of when more of their big names (Mario, Zelda, Kirby, etc) might be coming out for the Wii U – because right now, Nintendo needs to sell that system, and that’s the kind of thing they’ll need to do it. And as I have for quite a few years now, I’m half-hoping for the revival of Star Fox and Advance Wars (on Wii U and 3DS respectively), but sadly doubting we’ll see it.

    Sony – Need info on the PS4, stat. Any DRM policies or none? How will the online work? What’s the price point? This should be the easiest generation for them to take the lead in ever, with Microsoft ready jump off a cliff for some reason, and I’m just hoping with all my might that they don’t blow it.

    Microsoft – Yeah, screw ‘em. At this point, the only thing that could possibly get me to care about the XB1 (short of Sony following Microsoft off that cliff) is if Persona 5 turned out to be exclusive to it. And, well, even the phrase “snowball’s chance in hell” doesn’t seem adequate to capturing the likelihood of that.

    Others – I’m also hoping that Capcom tells us something about when Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies will be coming, and half-hoping for the announcement of a Monster Hunter 4 localization. And I’m kind of eager to see if they announce any new console titles, since they pretty much have none announced right now. I mean, they’re rebalancing SF4 again, but that’s been a yearly thing for them anyway and is no doubt nowhere near as big a project as making a new game; they’re releasing DuckTales Remastered, but Wayforward are the ones actually making it; and they have that “Deep Down” thing they teased at the PS4 reveal, which I strongly suspect is a code-name or sub-title for Dragon’s Dogma 2. And that’s it – everything else they have in the works is a handheld title. Seems to me there’s a gap to be filled there, and E3 is as logical a time as any to fill it.

    • June 11, 2013 at 09:57am
      In response to Zevox
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      At their E3 conference last night, Sony revealed that there would be no fees/restrictions/anything for used games. Once you buy a game, it is yours to do with as you please. They confirmed that it will not be always-online and will not stop working if you don’t have an internet connection.

  11. June 08, 2013 at 10:34pm
    Aya
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    At this point all of the consoles need to bring their ‘A’ game to make me excited for E3. I’m interested to see what Nintendo will show, and I’m interested in their presentation stance, but honestly I already know I might not buy too many more games this year. I already know I’m not buying a new console.

    In regards to your talk about the Clockwork Zelda. I would love to see a game where you play as Zelda but I don’t like that the artist switched her’s and Link’s Triforce roles. I won’t rant on it in a comment section that doesn’t involve it but I think that Zelda should always be the Triforce of Wisdom and Link the Triforce of Courage. That’s not to say that Zelda can’t be the main character just that Courage and Wisdom have their own roles to play in this never ending story. (Also Zelda is a bad ass!)

    • June 08, 2013 at 10:47pm
      In response to Aya
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      Yeah… Somebody clearly did not read the text that goes along with the images. If you had you would have seen that he did in fact keep the Triforce of Wisdom with Zelda. For example the text that describes the Gauntlet of Gamelon states that “it can only be used by those with great wisdom and a strong affinity for sorcery.”

      The whole point of this version of Zelda is that she is not just a gender-swapped version of Link and instead has her own combat style based on “sorcery and tactical prowess”. Indeed she does not even use a shield nor does she get any of Link’s usual tools. Instead she uses her wits and her magic in their stead.

      So in fact Aaron Diaz did indeed stay true to the Zelda of cannon when developing this idea. Just one more reason why Clockwork Empire is damn awesome. Now if you will excuse me I have to go back to dreaming about Nintendo hiring him to make this game a reality. Never happen of course but a man may dream. Oh yes a man may dream.

      • June 08, 2013 at 11:05pm
        Aya
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        In response to Shaun K.
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        Ok I guess I should have gone into more detail because I didn’t convey what I was trying to say properly. I feel like the Triforce of Courage should always be the one to go out and do the fighting and the Triforce of Wisdom belongs as the strategist. To change the symbol around like that and have Wisdom being the order taker rather than the order giver feels off to me. That’s is not to say that Zelda can’t have her own combat style or even she should never be a fighter, we have see that she is perfectly capable of such acts, but to just make her the hero without taking the lore into account is pretty much the same as just gender-swapping Link. Did I explain myself a bit better that time?

        Also in no way was I trying to say that the artist didn’t know what he was doing or that it was awful. I really enjoyed the artwork and the idea was a neat one. I just didn’t fully agree with it.

        • June 09, 2013 at 02:20am
          In response to Aya
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          I’d have to say that I agree with shaun on this one… you really aren’t making a strong case. Courage can be the one giving the orders. Courage is the ability to confront fear, pain, danger, uncertainty, or intimidation. Wisdom is a deep understanding and realization of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to apply perceptions, judgments and actions in keeping with this understanding. Courage can still be the one giving the orders and face those situations just as wisdom can take action and still face its realizations. In a way The legend of Zelda franchise admits in a way you can’t have wisdom without courage. When the triforce of courage Broke in Windwaker Zelda became a pirate that commanded a crew and took action to survive and help others. Until she found out she was a princess and her life as a pirate was quickly forgotten about. Courage can lead a country just as much as power or wisdom. Courage can give wisdom the will to act. It doesn’t just work the other way around.

      • June 09, 2013 at 12:15am
        In response to Shaun K.
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        The worst thing about that Zelda “idea” has nothing to do with Zelda herself. It has to do with Link.

        People realize girls make a big fanbase for the Zelda series too right? Ask ANY girl if they like Link’s design. They don’t. I’ll just give away that answer.

        The point is, Zelda shouldn’t be the main focus Link should be handled with JUST as much thought.

        • June 10, 2013 at 05:06pm
          In response to Xirbtt
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          Tell that to my Link wallscroll!
          Even if you meant the steampunk version, I think he looks quite spiffing. Could use a monocle, though.
          Now if by “design” you mean his sheltered, naive role in the clockwork world, I can agree.
          If you mean his personality in any of the official games, I disagree. I was OFFENDED by what he was in Twilight Princess, but I grew to like it.

          Not to start a heated discussion or anything. I probably won’t even be aware of any replies you make. (Sorry! It’s all opinion-based, and everyone is entitled to their own!)
          I just wanted you, and everyone, to know that at least ONE girl likes Link’s ‘design’, whether it be personality or looks, clockwork or official.

          • June 13, 2013 at 03:33pm
            In response to php101
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            Yeah link’s official design I did not mean, I meant the one showcased in the idea of clockwork.

            You’re the first then, all the other girls I’ve shown this to prefer original design link over this one. One reason, he supposed to be cool and awesome.

            Even if he’s some sort of prince he should retain that trait. Look at Zelda’s design for christ sakes (even though apparently her as a princess is terribly sexist now apparently?) her design is great and makes her look powerful and commanding, the opposite of clockwork link.

      • June 10, 2013 at 07:31am
        In response to Shaun K.
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        Except that she’s clearly wielding the Master Sword, which makes no sense because that sword has been bonded to Link in accordance with Skyward Sword’s canon, back when Zelda blessed it and turned it into the True Master Sword. So no, he really didn’t stay true to canon, as the sword is only wielded by one who carries “the Spirit of the Hero” (Link), and though there is nothing stopping Zelda from holding it, there’s no logic in her wielding it as her primary weapon.

        My core problem with the “idea” pitched here is that it’s clearly trying to give Zelda the role of Link and vice versa, instead of being smart about it and let Zelda have her own role.

        Zelda can still be a princess, can still focus on sorcery, and doesn’t need a dorky hoody outfit. This is taking feminism the wrong way by just swapping genders and tweaking the canon to make it work, instead of working within the existing canon and being smart about design.

        Consider instead: Instead of a standard sword-swinging game, give Zelda a vast array of combat spells and let the player choose which types of spells to focus on. Make it into a radically different game, with sorcery and tactical guile being the primary foci of combat. This keeps her to her general roots while still making her badass (in fact, the potential could make her VASTLY more badass than Link has ever been).

  12. June 08, 2013 at 09:54pm
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    There is only one exclusive that can save the XBone:

    “Ripper 2:Un-fucking-believable edition”

  13. June 08, 2013 at 09:19pm
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    I don’t even want to think about Microsoft at this point. If they do fail, I imagine it will be more like Sega dropping out of the console race than a video game market crash.

    As for Sony, I don’t think that they would take away any features a free user of the PSN has access to and add it to PS plus, but I can see them making several new features PS plus exclusive.

    Out of all the games announced for the PS4, I am the most excited for Knack. Mark Cerny platformer is one of the rare combination of words that can nearly guarantee that I will buy the associated game (the others being user created content, Metroidvania, and cyberdragon.)

    I don’t know what to expect out of Nintendo. I am just hoping for more original titles for the Wii U, and less ports of old 360/PS3 games.

    As for predictions for games that will be announced, I have a few. I am pretty sure that Sony will announce a new LittleBigPlanet for the PS4, since they have made a version of that series for every platform that they have released since that franchise got started. Since there will be a Ratchet & Clank movie coming out, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that another game in that series is being developed. If we don’t hear about one this year, I am sure that we will hear about one next year, when it is closer to the release of the movie. And just by analyzing how fast Sony has gotten sequels to their platforming series out in the past, I think we may see a Sly 5 announcement. Microsoft has already said that Halo 4 was the first part of a trilogy, and they have been pretty consistent on releasing a Halo game every year since Halo Wars came out, so I guess that we will hear another Halo announcement this year that is more substantial than Spartan Assault. As for Nintendo, three Zelda games released within one year sounds like a bit much (but I wouldn’t mind), so I sort of doubt that we will see a new Wii U Zelda game.

    One thing that wasn’t mentioned in the video that I want to discuss is whether or not Sony will have a price cut on the Vita. Since there was a price cut for it in Japan and it helped improve sales, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony announced a world-wide price cut for the Vita.

    • June 08, 2013 at 10:20pm
      In response to DarthJ46
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      A price cut for the Vita internationally would certainly be logical but… Well it would have been logical months ago also and that sure as hell did not seem to influence Sony’s thinking then. So I have given up on trying to predict what the hell they are going to do next when it comes to the Vita.

      It is obvious they have got big plans for functionality between the Vita and the PS4. However all of that is going to come to naught if they don’t lower the damn price of the system. I cannot imagine many people prepared to pay an additional 250 to 300 dollars on top of the already likely to be between 400 to 500 dollar cost of the PS4 (plus whatever extra will be needed for games, controllers, etc).

      The thought really does rather boggle the mind which is again why Sony should have dropped the Vita’s price months ago. But oh well. I suppose we shall see. Go ahead and place your bets now folks.

  14. June 08, 2013 at 09:05pm
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    a new Fire Emblem to the States, every year, until i’m fucking sick and tired of- AWAKENING HAS MY NON EXISTENT CHILDREN HOSTAGE PLEASE HELP M-

    • June 08, 2013 at 10:03pm
      In response to cbot1
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      May I recommend Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon? It’s a DS game so it’ll work on a 3DS. It’s got no nonexistent children, but you can still get your turn-based-battling fix from it.

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