Thumb Wars: Episode 23: Sony VS The Used Video Game, 8.2 out of 10 based on 17 ratings

Episode 23: Sony VS The Used Video Game

Welcome back to the show where we introduce the debate and you continue it. This week’s topic: Shaun & Austin discuss Sony’s patent to block used games and where things might go in the industry from here.

Thumb Wars is a weekly show hosted/produced by Shaun Kronenfeld dedicated to starting and encouraging dialogue and debate on a wide variety of topics within the video game industry. Look for a new Thumbs Wars every Sunday. Comments, opinions, and thoughts are not only welcome, they are the entire point. Feel free to follow Shaun on Twitter @bigred_13 if you feel so inclined.

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Shaun K.

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  1. January 20, 2013 at 04:39am
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    Browsers being wonky didn’t get to hear the whole thing. But sounds like Sony is up to its dickery again. Jesus, PS2 was one of my fave consoles of all time, but Sony has just been spiraling down the crapper since then. The PS3 is a rather poorly designed console and their new super slim looks like a Chinese knockoff, not a real Sony product. Dont get me started on the PSP or Vita.

    Now theres talk of this shit? If i understood what i heard theyre planning on coming up with something to ban used games on the PS4, is that right? Fuck you Sony, just FUck you. I pretty much never skip a console in a generation (other than for now the Wii-u) but i think i’ll be passing on the PS4

    And i dont even buy used games! Its just the friggin principle of the thing. All this bullshit is disastorous down the road. I still pick up PS1 games from time to time. How the hell would i get those if the ps1 had these lockouts?

    *edit*
    JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING. With consoles as unreliable as they are these days, wouldn’t this mean that your discs would not work when you inevitably bought a replacment PS4 for the original one that broke down?

  2. January 18, 2013 at 08:52am
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    I work at a used game store and as an employee i will tell every possible ps4 customer about this short-coming and i bet im not the only employee that will do so, also i recently bought dark souls used and showed it to two of my friends, they went and bought a new copy of the game and all of us are going to get dark souls 2 the moment it comes out, so that makes 5 new games sold just because of one used game. If the new xbox wont do this then i think that they will dominate the ps4.

  3. January 16, 2013 at 07:53pm
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    I support buying “Used Games” because maybe not all gamers are as rich as Sony with their huge empire of video game networking!

    A point was made in the discussion about “try it B4 U buy it”. I either download a demo from the PlayStation Network/ buy a UsedGame of the title or buy it new if I can’t help it. Developers have to influence the public not force restrictions because that’s not good for gaming moral or PR.

    I’m happy that MY PS3 is backwards compatible(not entirely sure how some aren’t) but forcing me to buy a New Game VS a Used Game goes against good consumer spirit. It’s like a bad relationship where one is abusive to the other. We need a good developer_company_consumer relationship! If the game is bad in the first place and is published, WTF going to buy it??

    We still want classic games in out game library so stop serving us sh!t titles! I’m sure all developers want to serve great games with high playability but publishers dont let them!

    • January 17, 2013 at 02:52am
      In response to E_ManGamer
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      Just a small thing about the why some PS3s aren’t backwards compatible. When the PS3 first came out it basically had the entire PS2 unit inside it (part of the cost), while PS1 games were handled and are handled via software emulation. In time to cut costs they started to removed parts of the PS2 from the PS3, going with half hardware half software emulation. My 80 gig is one of those. This cut costs but also made some PS2 games no longer work. Example Jak And Daxter can’t run on my PS3 because Naughty Dog wrote the game to use the PS1 cpu that was in the PS2. Since that was removed from my version of the PS3 it locked up.
      Eventually they removed the parts entirely, and instead of adding software emulation fully, they’re re-releasing popular games in the HD collections.

  4. January 16, 2013 at 10:00am
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    I really don’t see why developers have such problems with used video games. It’s basically a rental game where you pay extra to avoid a “return by” date.

    There is actually a good reason physical copies will always hold sway over Sony and Microsoft; PROPRIETARY MEMORY. When your company charges above-market prices for storage, memory becomes a hidden cost, and that FORCES players to buy physical copies or double-pay: once for the game, once for the space to put it on.

    So what can you say? Piracy happens most when you deplete all your customer’s disposable income on hardware and memory before the game even enters the equation.

  5. January 16, 2013 at 09:02am
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    Can I ask what is the point of buying a physical copy of a PC game anymore? The last several physical copies I bought only allowed me to input a key and then everything else was handled through digital downloads. As far as I could tell the game discs only purpose was the prompt the system to ask for the key. And yes, I’ve tried disconnecting from the internet to install from disc, it wouldn’t let me. Now I personally have no problem shelling out a couple up to $20 for a game that I don’t intend to resell, or have a physical copy of. However I’m also in the mindset that if I don’t have a physical copy, then I really don’t own anything. Also considering this last generation of PS3 titles has had almost no exclusives I jumped out of my seat for (okay actually none… I have them now just because I got such a good deal on a PS3) I just won’t support Sony if they implement something like that. At the same time I already don’t support Game Stop, and not because they sell used games, but because they sell used games at a price that is a massive rip off.

  6. January 16, 2013 at 08:42am
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    One thing that was mentioned is that game developers say they are loosing money on the used market, they aren’t selling more games for retail price. If they want to get back what they put in, they need to stop cranking out shovelware. IMHO if they block used games they will still see a drop in sales probably more that what they assume they will loose with used games.

    As far as going all digital…. I’m 50/50. I think it should be like was mentioned about music. have digital but you would still get the disc if you want.
    It makes me mad that with Xbox I can “install” my game to the hard drive, but I still need the disc to play it. I know that is in place to stop pirates. but if my disc gets messed up I have to shell out for another game. Or if the game goes on demand, if you own the disc you can’t download it/back it up for free.

  7. January 15, 2013 at 08:04pm
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    Digital-only gaming wouldn’t be a problem if:

    -Patches, bug fixes, and other DLC weren’t mandatory for the game in question,

    AND

    -An internet connection wasn’t needed to play the game, especially for non-multiplayer, single-player games.

    I love Steam, if only for the fact that I can download original games, and inexpensively, too.

    What I don’t like about Steam?

    I don’t like that I need a constant internet connection and be logged into Steam to play games that I PAID for, especially when said games aren’t even multiplayer, and don’t involve interaction with other human players.

    There are times (and places) that I want to play a game, but don’t have an internet connection (I game on a laptop).

    I miss how, PC games, you could hard install them to your machine, and not have to bother with actually popping the disk into the machine anymore.

    I’m not much of a hard copy person anymore.

    With music, I still buy the physical albums, but I copy them to my computer, to my MP3 player, and then I’m done with them, and I resell them, if only so I can get some money back, and I don’t like keeping stuff around, if I don’t really need it and I can resell it.

    As for music downloads, that’re offered through various channels, are usually poor quality, and cost the same price, if not MORE, than the physical copy. I still get the physical copies, but I don’t hang onto them. If I could actually buy the music digitally for a fair price, and good quality audio, I wouldn’t even have to bother with buying or reselling physical copies anymore.

    The whole point of digital content is for it to be CHEAPER to produce, cheaper to distribute, considering that you’re cutting out the cost of actually physically manufacturing/printing discs, and the contents that go with them, and make the product more convenient to work with, when you consider that you ought to be to download it, and use it immediately thereafter, as opposed to having to wait for it to ship to a store, have to worry about whether there’s enough of it on hand (supply) and then actually go to the store to get it.

    NOW, if digital distribution DOESN’T reduce costs for the consumer, it better at least still be more convenient for the consumer than mucking around with a physical copy. Otherwise, forget it!

    Whether a game is new or used, digital or physical, don’t you miss those days when you DIDN’T have to call tech support just to get the game to run for the first time?

    • January 15, 2013 at 09:48pm
      In response to Vigilhawk
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      I made an account just to let you know, and anyone else that may not have found out on their own, within the last year, steam finally “fixed” how “Offline Mode” was unable to be activated if you started Steam while disconnected, meaning you need to be connected to steam to set it to offline mode (apparently this setting was really important to someone for some reason, now I guess it just keeps a log and uploads it when you do actually connect). I’d like to think it was my fiery e-mail that clearly stated that having an offline mode to play games while an internet connection is disabled is no good… if it can’t be activated when the computer is offline! This was after going back and forth with their support telling me that I just need to set the thing to Offline Mode in order to play them while offline (so obvious right?). I reminded them that I had no internet connection, and Steam wouldn’t let me go to offline mode without connecting to steam first. I finished ranting at them basically saying that if I bought the games retail I could play them all I want, and I don’t think it is fair I should be punished for losing my internet for whatever reason, because I decided to buy from Steam instead. Good lord, I need my games more than ever when my internet is down :O It was by far the one and only truly frustrating thing that ever happened regarding my time using Steam. Seeing hundreds of dollars of games I’ve collected over the years sit and stare at me from my own computer, completely unable to be used because I needed to be online to set Steam to Offline Mode…

      So yeah, now you can switch to offline mode any time :) Though games through Windows Live, through Steam, are another story altogether, since they want windows live connected to work.

      Regarding the PS3/PS4 backwards incompatibility and no used games thing, if they do what Nintendo does and just keep re-releasing old games cheap through an online store, people like me wouldn’t care. But since I got into Sony mostly through the PS1 and PS2, with games that don’t get re-release onto the new consoles, and who’s series have been discontinued, or ruined by crappy sequels, I just can’t justify even thinking of saving up for anything beyond a PS2. Even my Wii I bought because it wasn’t much more expensive that the other Netflix devices out at the time, and it was also a game console. Now gaming is going the way of the movie industry, once the gaming industry started making money a lot of people put money into it expecting regular profits, and we’ll end up with a wave of cheap crap that will bring in more dollars per hour than taking the higher risk of creating something only the mind of its creator could imagine. Those creations end up bringing in huge money, but not to as many people, or spread out enough to help fuel the industry as a whole. And the industry only promoted what makes them money, and will attempt to out-promote their less than great crap to try and shadow what could have been a truly successful product. Every industry does this to their competition, while dishonest, and drowning in trickery, it’s defended with the whole, “what, you don’t like people making money?” argument. So the crap keep coming, and we keep expecting less and less from everything, and everyone. I would hope that people will wise up to what they want and deserve to be offered in this world by those who produce goods, but it feels that people are settling on being thankful they get anything at all. So yeah, Sony going against used games, and backwards compatibility, is going to shoot them in the feet, because each time a company does this, they are literally cutting off swaths of customers that will never come back, all in the hopes that their loss of revenue will somehow translate into… what does this have to do with piracy? Or is it lowering the cost of the console so more people can afford it, even though many of the people who need the discount want it to play their old games? Seems like a catch 22 to me, their running a strategy drowning in fantasy. But that is the direction of this system of industries, once they run out of legitimate ways of making more from less, they start turning into madmen with mad ideas that shouldn’t sound good to anyone on paper…

  8. January 15, 2013 at 01:48pm
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    First-Sale Doctrine. Used games should always be an option. Period.

    That aside, I’m with you guys on Sony being in a great position in terms of digital content. PSN+ is for the most part a pretty great service added value to the PS3. PSN/PSN+ is sort of in between Nintendo and Xbox 360 – one a model that is your typical digital delivery system with free online gaming but no premium offerings, and the other a tiered subscriber model where one needs to pay for access to online gaming. PSN offers both of these and even if you don’t choose the premium service you are still able to play online multiplayer. These I think result in two positives: greater accessibility and a choice with an incentive for premium. They have this great delivery platform already, so do what the Xbox has done with the Kinect and maybe refocus the console to build on that. It’ll make them more money than implementing that nonsense as described in the article.

    On the discussion on the aversion to the purchase of digital goods/DLC, I’d say I am more cautious with this than completely against – I still enjoy quite a few titles with DLC offerings and pass on others. I also quite like the episodic releases some games have now. With those I pay in full rather than one episode at a time, the latter seems kinda silly to me. If the offer is an incomplete game + paid DLC for the rest of the experience, they can piss off. The only company that has flat out addressed the argument of selling us “incomplete games” is Nintendo. Reggie when announcing games on Nintendo direct with additional digital content seems to emphasize that the game itself is the complete experience and DLC is just an added bonus. Other companies seem really dodgy with this and aren’t against withholding _game endings_ of all things from the base game. It’s practices like these that foster negative views on digital as a whole. Not to say that everyone does it, but from a money grab point of view it’s a no brainer.

    I’ll have to take the position Keiji Inafune had but a step further: there is a huge disconnect between the industry and its consumers. As long as there is no way to bridge the gap, stuff like this will always happen regardless of whether we buy into it or not. When we don’t buy into it the consumer is blamed and punished anyways.

  9. January 15, 2013 at 10:48am
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    Backwards compatibility is an issue of convenience for me. I’d like to remove the old system to save space. If a system isn’t backwards compatible, then I have to keep the old system around. The only true blocking of product is in a case where I don’t have the previous system, which isn’t an issue for me with the PS line. But if somebody wasn’t interested in a previous generation, then odds are they’re more interested in the current one. So backwards compatibility isn’t as much of a problem.

    However the killing of used games on a system is the denial of purchasing options for that system itself, which we’re assuming a consumer already has an interest in. If they lock a game to a console, then I’m already not interested due to several factors.

    The big one is that I sometimes have multiple units of a console. For example: I own two PS3s. One of them is in the great room for family play on the big TV. But the other one is upstairs to let my son play when the downstairs great room is in use (either the TV or whatever). We grab discs and bring them up and downstairs all the time. If the do go the ‘one game = one console” lock, then I’d be forced to purchase two games? One for upstairs and one for downstairs? FUCK THAT!

    Also, the inability to sell my own property sucks. It’s my stuff. Sony can go fuck themselves. If I want to sell God of War 5 in 2025 when I need a few extra bucks, they can go to hell. I just won’t buy it when it is first released, and neither will many others who are educated. It’s only a game.

    I understand the need for Sony to maximize profits, but they need to do that by dominating the market with higher quality products. Going this route only encourages people to go to piracy, or lose interest in the market as a whole.

    It’s a shame. I’ve loved the PS line since it came out, but I’m finding less and less of a reason to stay with them. If all I have for new games is what comes out on the Wii U, then so be it. I’ll live.

  10. January 15, 2013 at 10:14am
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    I buy both user game and new game where the sale less there €30.i think this fight for user game have want on for to long. gamestop and the gaming industry need to make a deal. e.x all user game give €5 back to the game maker. because if this go on where the ps4 come out gamestop would pay someone to chip the ps4 to allow user game to be play on it.

    • January 15, 2013 at 11:35am
      In response to irishGuy
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      Why? The user has every right to sell his/her game. It’s their prerogative. I think the whole piracy/used game argument is overstated. Most people don’t chip their consoles in fear that they break it or that it gets detected and lose online functionality. Also games themselves take up huge amounts of data which makes it much less convenient to pirate than music.

  11. January 15, 2013 at 09:08am
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    My biggest problem with digital download games is the price of memory. The price of a memory card for the Vita is between $20 (for 4GB) and $100 (for 32GB. I would rather put that money towards a game. With the 3DS It’s not as bad because they don’t require you to get a specific card, you can use ones you use for a camera. Also, on the used games debate, I cannot afford very many games that are priced $50 or more, so for me, It’s better to get used games. Plus, I grew up with Nintendo. More specifically, pokemon. I Buy every pokemon game because I am familiar with them and I know I like them. This year is the first time I have moved out of Nintendo territory and tried a Sony product, so I don’t know any of the series and feel no need to buy them. used games help me learn what series I will like and in the future I am more likely to buy the games when they first come out.

    • January 15, 2013 at 11:29am
      In response to Silver_Cattona
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      Thats a good point. Owning the original PSP I was dismayed at the price of the memory cards. Originally they were something like £50 ($80?) for just a gigabyte. That pretty much killed most of the PSP’s functionality, such as video and music.

  12. January 15, 2013 at 07:09am
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    Registered to just comment on this.

    I bought a ps3 somewhat late in 09. I enjoy Sony’s products. Owen a ps1, ps2 and that god awful PSP on the first day. Seriously anyone who bought that PSP had a right to pirate the hell out of it. I digress.

    The reason it took me longer to get the PS3 wasn’t the fact that it was £300 for a console in the middle of a recession. No. It was the £45 per god damn game! I naively thought that it was just a temporary phase like the ps2 which went from that price on launch day to £30 and later on £20.

    I have yet to buy a ‘new’ game. I guess I am part of the problem. The truth i a lot of people who have commented are just jealous because they don’t have the will power to resist consumer crap. They will whine about Mass Effect 3 but still buy it and buy whatever comes next. I resist that.

    Again I digress.

    The point I want to make is I am not the problem. As I have posted so far there is no way in hell that I am going to buy a ‘new’ game for that price. Secondly I am not a criminal. I know people who pirate but I am not one of those people. I also paid £300 for the god damn console! I have rights! I am not your problem Sony. Maybe if Final Fantasy didnt use Michael Bay production to make its graphics and actually focused on making a decent game for once, maybe the gaming industry wouldn’t need to pay so much for its production. The industry needs to work out a way to reduce costs and get games far cheaper.

    I read a while ago that EA was considering sports game packages. They realized that players who play FIFA dont play Madden. So why the fuck not just let people who pay for FIFA have access to other sports games for ever so slightly more?

    This is what the industry needs to reconsider. If people like me exist it’s the industries fault. I am still consuming. I could pay £10-£20 on a pre owned game. The industry needs to recognize this void and fill it. Taking the option away completely isn’t going to get me spending on new games. It will only make me play Xbox.

    As for Steam. I don’t care for it. I want a physical copy of my game and I want to buy my games second hand, not just trade. I try to avoid Steam games like the plague. But then atleast pc games are on average twice as cheaper as PS3 games.

    If PS4 does use this patent and Xbox 720 doesn’t then this will kill the PS4 and Sony. All Microsoft would have to do is market against Sony and spread the information out and it will kill atleast 20-40% of would be customers.

  13. January 15, 2013 at 03:41am
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    As long as we are on Sony and DRM, trying to play a BluRay on a PC is complete and utter bullshit- and is basically impossible in Linux.

  14. January 15, 2013 at 03:27am
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    I’ve already got a legal method that doesn’t involve buying used games, but it’s only for the very patient….Just wait till the GOTYE edition comes out, then wait for that to drop half price. You’ll only have to wait 6-18 months, heheh.

  15. January 15, 2013 at 03:00am
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    I’m loving the detailed conversation going on here, but I’m just gonna weigh in on the morality issue and leave it at that. Question: Does Sony, or any company for that matter, deserve to get paid for the same product twice? The answer is obvious. No they do not. So, this apparent fatwa on used games, to me, is just a bunch of filthy rich quaff-waffles crying for more money to put in their gold plated swimming pools.

    As for the argument that used gaming hurts the publishers profits…No. No, they don’t. At all. They already profited from the game once, and they continue to profit from NEW, NON-USED sales of the game, but again, nobody deserves to profit from the same product twice. There’s a huge line between pirated games and used games. Pirated games are games where the devs genuinely didn’t profit from it. Used games are games that the devs already got their profit from the sale of it. Maybe that could be worded better. Maybe it got worded better in one of the several rather long posts above mine. I dunno. But, that’s the way it is. Blocking the play of pirated games, yes, that’s PERFECTLY acceptable. But blocking the play of legitimately purchased used games? That’s just wrong, yo.

    …This ended up being a lil’ bit longer than I’d planned.

  16. January 15, 2013 at 01:16am
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    Very interesting topic to bring up. Honestly I’m more interested in the digital discussion so I’ll be brief.

    I don’t think Sony would release a product that forbade Used games from being used. Mostly because of it would impact stores that sold Used games (e.g most dedicated game retailers). These stores sell the consoles and games with the known potential that they’ll come back and get to be resold by the Store directly for profit. If Sony literally blocked off a means of revenue, than the stores could/would probably stop selling Sony devices or at least the new device and games connected to it. And instead advertise the competition more.

    Now if Sony does do this, odds are it will “Does Not Play Used Games*” *Used games requires the purchase of an online/offline activation key from [Insert Sony site or Publisher Site]. This way Sony and the publisher get some money out of a sale and a player gets a game.

    Honestly since I rarely purchase Used games it isn’t a particular issue with me. A more glaring issue I have is the possibility of the PS4 not being backwards compatible, with the rumors of another completely new architecture for the console flying around.

    But onto digital distribution. Is it the future? Yes. Is it a way to eliminate Used games sales? Yes. Is it increasing each year on PC and Consoles? Yes. Will it fully eliminate hard copy games? No, a thousand times no. Why? Because of the lack of high speed or even slightly higher than Dial-Up internet access across the US and other parts of the gaming world. Now I’m not talking about people not paying for it, I’m talking about parts that physically inaccessible for FiOS, or another broadband provider. I have an online friend who likes to PC game but hates Steam mostly because he can’t use it fully because of his slow internet.

    So long as there are large patches like this in existence, physical copies will always be required for both PC and Consoles. Another smaller extremely niche factor are collectors. People who like to have shelves of their games displayed.

    Another issue with Digital distribution (which kinda ties back to used games on consoles) is the increasing lack of demos at least on PC, which thanks to Steam has gone mostly digital (with physical copies being activated on Steam). There is no more trial for somebody curious about a game. And with digital you buy it for good. So if you get a game and it turns out to be bad or if you don’t like it there goes your money.

    Used games usually have a small return window so if you don’t like a game you can return without a loss. One solution I can see for Sony’s Anti-Used campaign and even an all digital movement, is to provide more and longer more release accurate demos so a consumer gets a proper feel of what a game will be like before they put their money down.

  17. January 14, 2013 at 11:45pm
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    Forgot about ethics, customer loyalty, etc. for a moment. In the pure capitalistic mindset, consumers should ask the question, “what am I getting for my money?” If it is a physical game, they you get the game content, physically display and move the product, the ability to sell the game to make money if you want, and the ability to lend it out to friends. Now, when a company says, “I am going to offer you the game for the exact same price, but you cannot sell it or lend it out,” then obviously that product has fewer features. Therefore, if a game is tied to only one console, but it costs the exact same as a game that I can sell/lend, then I am not going to get the lesser product. As a consumer, what do I get from the company limiting how I can use the purchased product?; if nothing, then I will take my business elsewhere. Now, if these games are significantly lower price, then I could support the practice since I am getting the product for a price reflecting the fewer “features” of the product, but I doubt any company which implements this practice is going to do that. I can accept digital distribution because I can get a non-physical, non-resellable product for very low prices. What can non-resellable console games give me though?

  18. January 14, 2013 at 11:42pm
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    I normally dont sign up for things like this, let alone do more then just watch the video but my son brought this up to me last night and i dropped my jaw. This is insane, i mean without the used market i would not be able to play certain games that i dont find out about until well after they have been discontinued. So what sony is saying is if you dont buy our games for the PS4 within 2 months your SOL. This is totally a bad move i never bought a PS3 for 2 reasons, cant play my PS1 or 2 games on it, and Price, when i looked at the PS3 in 2009 it was still $100 more then the x box. and i am no microsoft fan boy. I despise that company but thats another topic. I think Sony is going to be out of the console game market if they take this move, espically if X Box and Nintendo DON’T follow suit. A PS4 is not on my christmas list. As Far as Download only games and DLC, i have mixed thoughts. While i do apperciate being able to download classics and some new content to my fav games is nice to see, ME3 really pissed me off with day 1 DLC. I mean why not put it in the freakin game? And then i got to thinking, Does anyone else remember the days when game makers didnt make you have an internet connetion to play the game you paid for? Or Remember when the games came complete in one package you purchased at the store? One price, complete, no DLC. I miss those days. I know they had Glitches, but some of the games today have glitches that the game companys refuse to fix *cough SKYRIM *cough. Its an intresting topic and if games do go either route i will honestly have to say i’ve grown out of them. Go back to playing with my Toys in the Garage. Or do more Vegas Trips.

    • January 15, 2013 at 02:46am
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      The ps3 has always been able to play ps1 games just not ps2 games on all versions there are some older models that can play ps2 games.

  19. January 14, 2013 at 10:15pm
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    In my opinion any possible gains to be had from this and similar methods is outweighed by the harm it would do.

    Personally speaking if I couldn’t rent or buy used games then I would simply not buy them at all. Publishers/devs love to think that every game rented or pirated is a lost sale when i think it far more likely that they would just not pay at all.

    Used games helps because it gets your work out there and if they like it then they may buy it if on the fence. There have been plenty of games I was unsure about and getting to play them first helped me decide if they were worth spending my money on.

    As a consumer I can’t afford to buy every game that comes out and if I’m not sure about a game then I’m not going to chance wasting 50-60 bucks on it. And stuff like online passes and DRM just make being a paying customer more of a pain in the ass when they should be making it more appealing.

  20. January 14, 2013 at 08:41pm
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    This episode made me so angry, I finally registered. Let’s get controversial!

    1. I believe most people who support digital-only market do not understand any of the benefits of digital downloads; they just support it because FUTURE AND STUFF.

    2. Used game market actually gives people the incentive to buy new games! If I am unsure if I am going to like a particular game, I can play it once, and if it didn’t leave much of an impact on me, if it didn’t make me a fan, I can always sell it. That gives me the confidence to buy more new games: I could SELL them later.

    3. I personally do not trust hard drives. Anything can happen to them, and they die after a few years. NOTHING will happen to my discs if I take good care of them. I feel safe having my hard copies; they aren’t going to get erased by accident or get corrupted.

    4. FUCK Sony for not making PS3 backwards compatible. I know why they done it: to make us buy the games all over again, double the price (and bugs). I will never forgive them for what they done, despite being a somewhat loyal costumer.

    5. Let’s face it: most games do not get soundtrack releases, and even when they do, there is no guarantee you are getting all the music (looking at you, Madness Returns). The smart people know how to extract soundtracks from games, and that’s what they do. But you need a disc for that. If we help form a digital-only market, you can say goodbye to all the sweet game soundtracks we can get right now.

    Now, do you want THAT to happen?

    P.S. Who said we must stand passively and let the game companies do whatever they please? WE, the PLAYERS, are THEIR SOURCE OF INCOME! They must do what WE say, give us what WE want, not the other way around! I personally say NO to digital-only gaming market.

  21. January 14, 2013 at 08:20pm
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    Sorry but if I buy something I own it and I should by right have the ability to sell it. Sony will either change their tune or they will fail in the USA.

    • January 14, 2013 at 08:47pm
      In response to slayride
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      You are misunderstanding this all pretty much all the game publishers want this not just Sony and of course they aren’t going to say it publicly but in the end if the game cost more then the money they get from the game due to used sales then you get less games and the company dies.

  22. January 14, 2013 at 03:38pm
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    On the subject of DLC the idea is great and can be used to add extra to the game in late releases. Good examples can be seen done with Mortal Kombat DLC characters or Skyrim DLC quest/missions. But the problem is the way most DLCs if not some are plain rip offs like COD DLCs and especially the ones on the game’s 1st day release. It’s like paying for tap water to drink at a restaurant when they are commonly provided free of charge.

  23. January 14, 2013 at 02:50pm
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    Nintendo: Fire Reggie and replace him with just about anyone. His job isn’t awkward, forced press release videos. His job is localization and he isn’t doing it. We had to tell him to release Xenoblade Chronicles and he hasn’t even touched Earthbound. Anyone else in his position would’ve given us Earthbound and the Mother series years ago. If he hasn’t done it yet by this year’s end, he probably isn’t going to do it ever.

  24. January 14, 2013 at 02:07pm
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    Personally, if the PS4 came out with such technology used in it, I would not pick it up until such a time as a game I felt I absolutely could not miss came out as an exclusive for it. And there are very few games which could potentially be in that category. A new Persona title is the biggest example, but with Atlus branching out from being Playstation-only with many of its titles (see Catherine and Persona 4 Arena being PS3/360, SMT: Strange Journey and both Devil Survivor titles on the DS, and SMT4 being on the 3DS) I think that could end up not being a problem at all. Beyond that, maybe a promising “Tales of” title could do it, but only maybe.

    As far as how likely would it be to hurt the system overall, I think it would definitely have a negative impact if the next Microsoft console does not follow suit. When gamers have a choice between a console that allows them to play used games and one that doesn’t, I think most will pick the former, save only for those who just can’t bring themselves to miss out on series like God of War or Uncharted. If Microsoft does the same thing, however, I think it’ll be much less of an issue, because then unless the games being made for those systems are also getting Wii U versions, console gamers will be pretty much out of options in that regard – it’ll be either accept it or stop playing new console games, and in that situation I think most would accept it.

    Now, as far as the digital-only thing goes, I would rather that not happen, and would avoid buying systems that do that until such a time as there is no alternative. I like downloadables for smaller games or bonus content, but for bigger titles I want to have that physical copy of what I buy that will last as long as I keep it in good shape, and would be especially wary of anything that might stop working once the console generation becomes obsolete and no longer supported (i.e. anything requiring an internet connection to play). If it comes to pass that every system ends up doing this, however, then yeah, I’ll be out of options and just accept it – I’m not going to give up this hobby over this if it comes down to it.

  25. January 14, 2013 at 12:04pm
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    Austin made a good point about people such as Apple fans who would buy a PlayStation 4 regardless, but I’m more in the scenario that you described. Series such as Ratchet & Clank will inevitably move on to the PlayStation 4, so as much as I want to stop giving Sony money, they keep putting out things that already appeal to me. I still haven’t bought a Vita because I prefer physical media over digital, and while I rarely buy used games, the fact that the market exists at all is something I’m fine with. As I’ve made very clear on Twitter, I despise Sony, so I don’t think Austin should feel bad about the fact that Sony gets bashed a lot on here.

  26. January 14, 2013 at 04:58am
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    I am pretty sure I remember the Japanese president of Nintendo said they were dropping the price because sales were not that good and I know Nintendo would never have done a large price drop in a new system in less the half a year of being on the market.

  27. January 14, 2013 at 01:36am
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    Your forgot to put RE: 3DS price drop in there buddy because nintendo did have to force drop the system price due to poor sales.

    • January 14, 2013 at 01:45am
      In response to tougakun
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      I’m not really sure what that has to do with anything. Why even bring that up? Its hardly relevant. The N64 had a price drop also. And? Should I have named every system to ever get a price drop? Sorry but I really am lost in terms of what your point is.

      • January 14, 2013 at 02:33am
        In response to Shaun K.
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        It’s relevant in the time frame of systems you brought up and it is relevant for the reason they dropped the price.

        • January 14, 2013 at 01:44pm
          In response to tougakun
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          You are DEAD WRONG about the used game industry in Japan. It is worse there than it is here. If a game doesn’t get good sell-through within two weeks stores will drop the price to keep up with the prices of used games (and to make sure that they keep things on the shelves moving).

          • January 14, 2013 at 03:37pm
            In response to Midboss
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            Lol you don’t seem to understand when a company put a title on sale the company selling the item takes the loss not the company that makes the game so no it is not as bad and most of the used games deal in japan are for classic games that are not in circulation anymore.

      • January 14, 2013 at 02:34am
        In response to Shaun K.
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        Mainly because of how you are putting it makes it sound like Sony has been the only one to have dropped the price of a system to move sales.

        • January 14, 2013 at 03:13am
          In response to tougakun
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          Sony hasn’t dropped the price of their systems. I mean yes they eventually lowered the cost of the PSP but not until it was far too late to do the system much good in US at least. And now the tradition continues with the Vita.

          Also the 3DS actually had decent sales especially considering Nintendo had yet to really start putting out the big 1st-party games. The problem the 3DS had was more one of perception and probably would have ultimately been alright once the first Mario game arrived. Which is not to say I think the price drop was a bad move. Exact opposite really and even then Nintendo was coming from a place of dominance in terms of the handheld market. Sony is not. And I wish Sony would drop the price of the Vita tomorrow.

          And none of this still has anything to do with anything in terms of the actual topic under discussion in this week’s episode. Which was the used game market in general and in particular Sony’s continued stance against it. Which is why whether or not Nintendo has ever dropped the price of a system to move sales is not relevant. Of course they have. Plenty times. And? So?

          • January 14, 2013 at 05:05am
            In response to Shaun K.
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            Actually Nintendo at least in Japan is very anti used games but in Japan the people wouldn’t buy used games simply on principle because they want to support the game companies so really Sony anti used games plan is more protecting there clients IP’s on there system from a game company point of view they are more likely to make games on the system that protects there IP revenue.

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