Spring 2013 Show and Trailer!
Anamanaguchi Dreams of Chiptune Kittens
Thumb Wars: Ep 37: Ninten-Dont’s?: Of LPs & Twitter
Top 5 Rail Shooters
Sage Reviews – Metro: Last Light
Posted By Shaun K. about 9 months, 2 weeks ago
Thumb Wars: Episode 4: Kingdom Hearts – Past, Present, Future,
Episode 4: Kingdom Hearts – Past, Present, Future
Welcome back to the show where we introduce the debate and you continue it. This week’s topic: Shaun & Austin examine Kingdom Hearts by looking at its past, discussing its present, and speculating about its future.
Thumb Wars is a weekly show hosted/produced by Shaun Kronenfeld dedicated to starting and encouraging dialogue and debate on a wide variety of topics within the video game industry. Look for a new Thumbs Wars every Sunday. Comments, opinions, and thoughts are not only welcome, they are the entire point. Feel free to follow Shaun on Twitter @bigred_13 if you feel so inclined.
I think that BBS, 358, and 3D are good, but what is the purpose of re;coded. the only polt that is used o tell us anything is the secret ending. Was it just to keep us from yelling for another game between BBS and 3D?
I just finished Dream Drop Distance, so while this video is about a month old, I’ll still comment.
As adorable as the Dream Eaters were, the party system just wasn’t as good as the console games. I didn’t like how you actually had to revive them, unlike the console games where they can revive on their own or a Cure would do the trick. I also felt that it tried to be too much like Birth by Sleep’s Command Styles, at least with Riku. Speaking of Birth by Sleep, while I loved the Command Styles, I rarely, if ever, used the D-Links beyond completing the journal.
I disagree with the idea that Birth by Sleep takes away from the ambiguity. Call it wanting to have your hand held, but I rather like when a story dips into the past and gives us a glimpse at the how and why, and I feel that it helps explain why the plot in 3D went the way it did. Birth by Sleep, 358/2 Days, and coded all helped to explore more of the world and show us new things, and while in my mind Days only served to introduce Xion and coded just gave us an idea of what was in the bottle, which Birth by Sleep implied before it anyway, 3D brought the various threads of those games together and set the stage for Kingdom Hearts III. In that regard, all four portable serve one goal: build up Kingdom Hearts III. That game itself needs to live up to that potential to make all these games and years of waiting worth it.
Now, I don’t believe that Nomura entirely had the story planned out, especially since he’s admitted as such. I believe he wanted to set a potential sequel up, and while 3D felt like it had a bunch of retcons, these felt like natural developments and twists that helped the story reach a unified idea. Basically, I can definitely believe that the story was made up as it went on, but the way it’s crafted makes it seem like it isn’t. Seeing people toss the word “convoluted” at a bunch of stories, particularly Kingdom Hearts, has led me to resent the word, so thank you for providing a difference between “complex” and “convoluted”.
The only other possible game we could get before III is Birth by Sleep Volume 2, which even Nomura said was a long time off, and may even be for something after the Xehanort Saga. The series can basically be played on systems that can play PS2 games (I’m not going to say just PS3 because Sony seems intent on destroying backwards compatibility as we know it), PSP, and 3DS. Birth by Sleep is basically the one I think people have the least opportunity to play, since I’ve seen more people say they need a PSP first while most people had DS before Days and Re:coded. The 3DS is new, so there’s also of course that. I share the sentiment of an HD release, and Nomura has expressed interest in making the game as widely available as possible. If the God of War Saga is any indication, it’s possible that you can get the collection you asked for with 1, Re:CoM, II, and BBS all being bundled together. I’m still unsure about Birth by Sleep since most collections on PS3 are capped off at three games, and to me it makes more sense to put the three PS2 games together since they all tell Sora’s story, while Birth by Sleep could see a PS3 remaster, so we can simplify things so that the series could be on just PS3 and 3DS. Or, since I’m a Nintendo fan, I’d like to see Re:Collection (As I like to call it) on the Wii U, although both systems are possible and could help Nomura live up to his promise of making the game as widely available as possible. It could also end up on Xbox 360, since FF13 went that route, and would give owners of that system their fair share.
Of course, no one should ask about Kingdom Hearts III because we know the answer is “We need Final Fantasy Versus XIII first.”
Here’s the argument to end all arguments on the subject:
Kingdom Farts
http://www.gamefront.com/kingdom-farts/
I would disagree that it’s all planned out- Nomura has stated in interviews that the first secret ending for KH1 was something they pretty much just threw together last minute with a vague idea of what it was all supposed to mean, but the secret ending for KH2 was apparently much more planned out. Still, games like Days only had Xion because a novelist they had hired to make light novels of the previous games came up with her, and re:Coded only exists because they wanted to push themselves and see if they could make a game for cell-phones.
And really, I think that is Kingdom Hearts ultimate curse and power. It’s turned into Square Enix’s testing grounds for experimenting with different formats and features for those formats, and while that has resulted in a number of different games who all feel pretty unique, it’s also lead it to spread itself way too thin.
I maintain to this day that re:coded could have just been a flashback at the start of 3D with Mickey basically going:
“So I investigated and analyzed Jiminys journal with magic, and I found that there’s hidden information in it that we’re gonna unlock with this here Dream-world exam!”
Days, while I will admit that I do find Xion sympathetic, could have been avoided entirely if she hadn’t existed and the Organization ahd simply received the character development they had in that game in Kingdom Hearts 2. But they didn’t, and that is part of the reason why KH2 made me so massively disapointed… but that’s a story for another time.
I will say that I don’t agree with Sean when he says that KH needs to be on consoles to develop it’s gameplay, because I don’t really know what he means by that. They could definitely stand to upgrade their environments and make them more lively with the power of HD, that I definitely agree with (because Agrabah has been a deserted ghost town for FAR TOO LONG DAMMIT even the first KH and KH2 made it empty and that’s just WRONG), but gameplay wise? Their experiments with the Command System and Flowmotion represent, in my opinion, the better and most intriguing parts of KH-gameplay. I found KH2 very boring because of how stream-lined everything felt, and the QTE’s in that game just about killed any challenge (and thereby engagement) I encountered. Heck, I was just GLAD that I wasn’t so terribly overpowered when I first played Days that I didn’t even mind the overly complicated “Keyblades change your combo” system, I was just glad I once again ahd a smidgeon of Chain of Memories complexity back.
Then again, that might just be my tastes showing through. I loved Chain of Memories and it’s card system precisely because it felt more interactive to me. It felt like I had to think more about my approach in combat what with assembling and constructing a killer deck, be wary of the cards number and timing, and basically NOT just steam-roll everything in my path with X and Triangle. Constructing an awesome spell and learning how to use it for maximum effect was just so much more interesting than simple button-mashing. Heck even KH1 had more complexity in its battle system than 2- remember when Sonic Blade only had one attack unless you timed your button presses just so?
But I have heard from other fans that they appreciated the much simpler approach in KH2, and maybe I’m just a sucker for challenges… but yes- over all I don’t really see how putting the games on a homeconsole would have made their combat and control any more engaging then they already are. Only thing I can think of is “more shoulder buttons, more quick-select menues”.
ALSO because I can’t edit this comment- the official reason that Nomura gave for Kingdom Hearts 3′s continued delay is called “Versus XIII”. That is the Final Fantasy-game he and his main team at Square-Enix is SUPPOSED to be working on, and development of that eats every HD-console resource his team has. Square-Enix has decided that they can’t let one of their teams (Nomuras team is working on Versus while Motomu Toriyamas team works on XII-2 and 3 and what have you) develop two HD-console titles at once because they simply don’t have the money/time/manpower to do so, so… untill Versus XIII is either done or canceled, they can’t even start working on KH3. Believe it or not, it’s what we got.
Firstly, Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories is most definitely tied for worst of the series. With the original Chain being the other game tied for worst. I absolutely despised the card game aspect of Kingdom Hearts. For being a filler storyline bridging 1 and 2, I adored the story and it could have been done without ruining the fighting mechanics. I believe that the best portable series game has to be Birth. The 3 converging storylines, the whole idea totally required you to play through more than just once. Plus things differed and merged with each character. Though Ven looked exactly and sounded exactly like Roxas I got confused a bit with the intent for that.
Stay with the things that excelled KH1 to the point of the sequel being made. Keep Donald and Goofy as members of the party. Keep the fighting engine simple but yet a bit more advanced. And for heaven’s sake DO NOT BRING THE CARD SYSTEM BACK! Lol, sorry bout the caps but that’s how passionately I feel about that system.
At least the card game made you think a little while you played.
Allot of stuff doesn’t work in The Kingdom Hearts games, like leveling individual moves in Birth (which by the way take so long to do so if you don’t grind for awhile in various areas along the way you will reach end game with a sad set of moves.) the random board game that did nothing besides be slower at raising your moves and was generally boring.
Days had a weird thing which each different keyblade you equipped had a different attack pattern and I don’t think there was a way to even KNOW what that pattern would be. So you might get a great key stats wise but then find out its combo leaves you standing in one place instead of keeping up with a foe that the attacks would knock back. This lead to a generally annoying level and boss battle for me.
Yeah don’t get me started on the story. I do believe that it is a convoluted story and I don’t agree that they had much planned from the start. Kingdom Hearts had a complete story, the secret ending was seeing Pluto and following him down a long and winding road, nothing is set up here besides sequel baiting. Also the secret boss in KH Final Mix again was just baiting or even that. A guy in a robe attacks Sora with certain weapons. Granted yes, he did turn out to be the big bad in the next game but nothing was SET UP in KH1, nothing story wise at least. It was just an extra boss they could easily turn into anything if they got a sequel. I don’t see the build up, I don’t see the larger plan when I look at these like Shaun does I guess.
Yeah, there wasn’t a whole lot of planning around what would come after Kingdom Hearts, Nomura has even admitted this. He basically made a complete story and offered some sequel bait that he hadn’t really given THAT much consideration because they didn’t even know if Disney was going to allow a second game to start with. According to his own statements, he HAS been working much harder to build a bigger story from Kingdom Hearts 2 and onwards though.
Actually Xirbtt this is the secret ending for KHI: http://youtu.be/Lf-UVwiog70 and if you actually watch you will see a number of plot points from throughout the series teased not to mention variations of ACTUAL SCENES from the KHII. And keep in mind there was a gap of 3 years between the release of KHI & II. The scene you are talking about is the actual ending for KHI.
Now watch the Secret Movie from KHII: http://youtu.be/AnLgJN3VhXc Again, we are seeing a sequence that will show up almost verbatim in the next main game in the series, Birth, two games with a gap of FIVE years between release this time around. And again, if you read the various pieces of text from throughout the ending, you will see actual lines of dialogue from future games being quoted and/or references to plot developments that have only started to fully reveal themselves in 3D.
Am I saying every little aspect, down to the smallest detail, of the story in these games has been laid out in advance? No of course not. That’s rarely, if ever, the way long-form storytelling works in any medium. But the general outline of the plot as being teased and hinted at through these endings has clearly remained consistent. If you don’t like the plot that’s one thing. Personal preference and all that and more power to you; but the larger plan for the series is undeniable.
Oh, whoops, yeah you’re right that wasn’t the secret ending.
I just feel that after Kingdom Hearts one allot of the plot and characters feel contrived and retconed into future games. But yeah, opinions and all that.
In conclusion,Kingdom Hearts may be a little confusing, but if one really pays attention to the motives, the rules of the KH universe, and charcters it does make sense. Kingdom Hearts makes more sense than many other JRPG games (Like some Final Fantasy games maybe?) It makes sense if you just accept the way the universe works. I don’t question how Monstro is able to survive in space, I just accept it.
P.S. Disney please buy the rights to Tarzan. I would love to return to the Deep Jungle again.
I am one of those people who loved KH1, KH2, and Chain, but have become cold and hostile to the series with the excess of handhelds while eagerly awaiting Kingdom Hearts III. Birth by Sleep and KH 3DS look really good (no really, they do), but both require me to buy two full systems I have no interest or faith in (respectively). I dislike the very premise of Re:Coded, and I did play 358/2 Days and really didn’t like how the game just loved to waste my time and move the story forward as slowly as possible. I traded it in before I got to the ending because I didn’t care where it was going.
This is not helped by the decline of Square enix in general. I understand KH usually operates with different parts of Square, but as Final Fantasy declines I worry that some of that will leak over into KH (though from what I hear, hasn’t yet).
That said, Birth, 3D, and the later half of 358 might be really good and the rule rather than the exception. But unless they get a console port/hd remake, I’ll never know.
In a weird way, I’m still somehow excited for KH3. Remember how KH2 explained what happened in Chain? Well, after all these handhelds, KH3 will either have a lot of explaining to do or won’t explain at all.
So for the series as a whole, I no longer know what I think of it because I’ve been so disconnected.
As for ideas for worlds, I’m hoping for Robin Hood, Incredibles, Rescuers Down Under (if they were shrunk, of course), and oh BOY I would nerdgasm if they did Gargoyles. I’d also like to see Island at the Top of the World (but no one remembers that so, probably not) and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. I’d love 20k in KH3 because the story is about Nemo’s bitter, cold, broken heart and how he’s lost faith in humanity. It’s perfect for the Heartless. As for Final Fantasy worlds, I know Square would rather castrate themselves than remake FF7…but what if they only need to remake certain parts of it, like the most important cutscenes?
That would be an acceptable compromise in lieu of an actual full remake.
I’ve compared KH to Harry Potter in terms of complexity before and how this is a series in which you can’t really skip a game and expect to understand everything in the series as a whole because it’s one long story. Although, with that said, what KH does that HP doesn’t that makes the series a bit intimidating to some new comers is the play order. With HP all the books go in a straight time line from year 1-7 with the epilogue taking place in the future.
The first three KH games are in chronological order but then we have Days as a midqual starting towards the end of the first game and taking place during and after CoM and right before KH2, Coded takes place after KH2 and was being released in chapters after Days but didn’t finish until BbS released because of its ending, and BbS is a prequel that was released during Coded’s run time. And that’s not counting all the “remakes” and rereleases like Re:CoM, RE:Coded,the FMs, or even the games that got canceled.
Looking at the minimum there are seven games in total. Looking at everything there are twelve games and counting. If you want to look at the ENTIRE spectrum there are two known KH games that have been canceled so there’s information about fourteen games floating around. For new comers that can be confusing.
Honestly, while I do like Days, you can absolutely skip both it and Coded (in all its forms). They really are side games, unlike say Chain or Birth ( I reserve final judgement on 3D until KHIII is released; I personally don’t think its a side game but I can’t say for absolute 100% certainty just yet). Days adds some nice character bits and all but nothing that a flashback or two can’t at least approximate. And that is fine; side stories are meant to operate like that.
Also, while the games may follow a twisty chronological order, the actual play order is simple: KHI, Chains, KHII, (optionally you can add either Days or Re:Coded or both here) KH:BbS, KH3D. When you look at it that way, you can see why I am lobbying for an HD collection of I,Re:Chains,II, & Birth. While would still leave the issue of 3D, it would at least simply things considerably. Fingers crossed and all.
I think the very fact that I have no idea what “Chains doesn’t count because, well, Kingdom Hearts II” means serves to support the notion that the series is convoluted to the larger gaming audience.
I’d like to think I’m a pretty hardcore JRPG fan and a lot of the concepts in the games are super confusing. Like what a nobody is and how different characters are apart of other characters and how they came to be. @_@
I’ll agree with Shaun in that it all seems planned out with the secret endings and what not, but that doesn’t mean Square Enix hasn’t been over indulgent with its spinoffs. At bare minimum you’d need 3 separate consoles to play all the games in the series, which I feel like is asking a lot of your audience.
KH3 needs to happen and it needs to happen on an HD console to wrap the whole series up.
Actually what I meant was that Chains of Memories, for GBA originally, doesn’t count as one of the current batch of handheld games because it came out between Kingdom Hearts I and Kingdom Hearts II.
And again, if you play all the games (or even just play 3D and read the various glossary and chronicles entries) I think the store does become fairly clear. There was a reason I likened it to Harry Potter but almost any long running genre series would do. From outside looking in, these properties can seem incredibly intimidating to non-geeks or the non-hardcore but in reality, with the goods ones at least, that isn’t necessarily so.
After all, how many non-hardcore fantasy readers, be they child, adult, or senior, have been able to read Harry Potter and follow along with little trouble? Judging by sales and popular opinion, a lot. And I would not consider Kingdom Hearts really that much more complicated than Harry Potter.
I agree the series becoming dispersed across multiple consoles is a barrier. Still, without knowing more about the financial realities that lead to those decisions, I don’t know if we can really judge the true necessity of this approach with any real accuracy. Certainly it hasn’t stopped the series from achieving significant mass appeal if sales of the latest title are anything to judge by. And I think if Square ever does get around to doing a HD remake of KHI, KHII, Re: Chains (the PS2 remake of the aforementioned Chains of Memory), and Birth, it could solve this problem nicely.
Oh and for the record, Nobodies are what is left behind when particularly strong willed individuals have their hearts devoured or removed. The most powerful of them assume a form nearly identical to their former human (or anthropomorphized animal as the case may be) selves and have all the memories of that self but cannot actually feel emotions. Think of it kind of like the Joss Wheedon take on Vampires if it helps.
I guess I still don’t really understand what you meant by Chains not counting, because it’s older? It’s still a handheld spinoff title (originally).
Just because one person understands it perfectly well doesn’t mean that everyone else should, even after playing a majority of the titles. I’ve played most of the games and I have trouble following everything.
And I would totally disagree with the Harry Potter comparison. Outside of Horcruxes, I don’t feel like there are that many complicated concepts. It’s just about a boy Wizard going to school trying to defeat an evil Wizard.
KH is about…a kid that that finds a Key Blade that can save Disney worlds from being corrupted by heartless, which are living manifestations of the darkness in peoples hearts? Why and how all these concepts weave together is far more complicated than anything Harry Potter has to offer.
Regardless of financials, I can’t think of any other series that has had more spinoffs (almost triple the amount) on such a wide array of platforms than mainstay, numbered iterations.
Really? Can’t think of any? *coughs* Street Fighter, Mega Man, Call of Duty, Mario, Sonic, Tales of, at various points Ultima, I could go on *coughs*
Also technically I think you mean side game not spin-off (I mean its not like there has been a Kingdom Hearts kart racing game or Kingdom Hearts mahjong title for example) (pedantic Shaun is pedantic 
).
And even then, Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep is not a side game; its (as I keep saying) Kingdom Hearts 0 in all but name (and this is not just speculation on my part; the producer of the series has flat out said as much) and a vital part of the narrative. I also wouldn’t call Chains or 3D side stories but fine for the sake of argument I’ll give you those. Even then, that leaves four side games and three main games with the fourth and final main game on the way. And all in a period of ten years. I don’t see what’s so unbalanced or unreasonable about that.
If you find the narrative confusing or it doesn’t work for you that is one thing. I won’t argue on that point because we all react and respond to stimuli in different ways. But I don’t think that blaming said problems on the release approach of the series is particularly germane. It sounds like you would be just as lost if all they had released were was KHI, II, and Birth. Which to me sounds more like a case of personal taste.
And yes people can get confused by Harry Potter. My mother read all the books and while she overall liked the story and characters, she also had too frequently ask either myself or my father for explanations of stuff she, a non-genre fan, had trouble digesting. See. Personal taste.
Oh, also, I read thist 100-pages long plot summary of kingdom hearts and it consists mostly of three images per page followed by small sentences: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8cPyvE2GTjOMzE4MTVlZTctMjE5Yi00YzAzLWJjZTAtZTllODY2OTc2MTMx/view?hl=en_US&sle=true
Ooooo! Soooo convoluted!!!
Pshaw, if those are the rules of the game I could very well turn the plot of Pac-Man into an epic novel. In fact, I already pitched the idea of a movie adaptation to Warner Bros. and they’re down with it. James Cameron is set to direct. It will feature Bruce Campbell as Pac-Man and Patrick Stewart as Blinky.
Oh, that’s what people have been talking about? I thought it was for serious. That thing is just for shits and giggles. Though I would like to see the results of someone having essentially made an encyclopedia of the entire series until now. More thorough than the Wikis, including stuff from the interviews and journals.
I have little doubt that the next game in the series is going to be KH3. 3D was pretty much set up for this! You could rename it “Set Up: The game” and it would quite apropriate. It is pretty well done and fun set up, but set up nonetheless.
Also, the problem with the plot comes from several factors:
1- the series span between sony and nintendo consoles, meaning those who own ones but not the others will be left hanging.
2- The series largely deals with abstract concepts, mainly the heart, and thus there is no safe ground of fact. Anyone who doesn’t pay extreme attention will be lost before they know it with what the series does with it.
3- Not enough King Mickey (ok, that’s just me, but it’s true somehow)
No. No it’s definitely not just you, we definitely need much mroe King Mickey because he is awesome and felt like, up until Birth By Sleep at least, like the only well-rounded and competent Keyblade wielder we’d seen thus far. Darn straight I’d like more of him. Secretly one of my biggest annoyances is how it felt like Rikus whole story in Chain of Memories, in which Mickey plays a critical part in rikus development, just got tossed aside in future games so they could focus on letting Riku have ambiguous tension with Sora.
Shaun, I have to say I agree with a lot of points, espicially the party members, but here is my problem. I love Kingdom Hearts, but one of my favorite mechanics is the worlds. The latest games have had some intresting worlds, but they didn’t feel as creative and felt empty compared to the worlds in 1 and 2. Plus, the creators have stated that this is called the Xehanort Saga and is only the first phase for KH. What Disney movies are left to be made into worlds? I would love to hear your opinion one KH fan to another.
Well since Disney own the rights to Pixar and Marvel Comics, plus only a small amount of Disney’s movies have been covered i think that there is a lot of things to make into worlds. I’m personally hoping for a Toy Story world.
1) I tottaly agree with you about the Toy Story world and pixar in general. Incredibles, Brave, ext. would be nice chocies.
2) I understand about the rights they have and I know they can use some of the old worlds from the old games, but what concerns me is if they do continue the series after 3, what will be left? Worlds based off Finding Nemo, An Extremly Goofy Movie, Bugs Life (Actually that would be a good world)? I have high hopes for 3, which I hope will be the best and have more detaied and less empty worlds, but I am generally concerned if they decide to go father.
Oh there are tons of worlds left. Why Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Meet The Robinsons, Brother Bear, and The Emperor’s New Groove all spring to mind as modern Disney films that could work well in a Kingdom Hearts game. Plus they haven’t really finished Stitch’s story; Birth showed us the first part but not the latter. I for one would love a KH’s world set in a version of Hawaii and using the art style of the film. And there are also more stories in The Pride Lands waiting to be told… Even lesser Disney films like Oliver & Company, Atlantis, & Treasure Planet could make excellent worlds in KH and a chance to bring a little redemption to those films to boot. I would also suggest the upcoming Wreck It Ralph but I fear featuring a world based on a movie set in an incredibly meta video game world in a video game that is already meta as hell to begin with might just spawn a universe destroying paradox.
Plus lots of older fare remains untouched: take Lady and the Tramp. I wouldn’t have thought that film would have worked in KH before Birth, but after the way that game handled Cinderalla, I could see it. Other classics include Robin Hood, The Rescuers, 101 Dalmations (yes I know they were in the first game, but come on, there was no Cruella De Vil; it does not really count until you have Cruella), The Fox and the Hound, and The Jungle Book. Nor does Disney have to restrict themselves only to features with a single narrative or even features at all as 3D proves with Fantasia and The Three Musketeers. You could easily do a world built around say Mickey and the Beanstalk or the Prince and the Pauper. Other similar possibilities include shorts like the Reluctant Dragon or Peter and the Wolf.
And that does not even address Pixar. So many possibilities there. A Bug’s Life, Monster’s Inc, The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, & Brave just to name a few. What Kingdom Hearts fan has not dreamt of exploring Monstropolis with Sully and Mike or fighting Syndrome alongside Mr. Incredible, Elsatigirl, and the res of the family? Heck I have long thought the possibilities of a Toy Story inspired world based on a combination of the fantasy sequences from the films and the Buzz Lightyear TV show could work wonderfully. And speaking of TV shows… Do I even have to explain why and/or how Ducktales, Tale Spin, Gargoyles, Darkwing Duck, or Gummi Bears would make amazing worlds? Considering the secret boss of 3D, its clear that Square Enix has full access to all the characters of the Disney Library, even ones the company itself tries to ignore or tends to forget about. So I definitely think any of the 90s cartoons would be fair game. Not to mention strong newer shows like Phineas and Ferb or Gravity Falls.
And then there is even the more esoteric choices ala Tron (which itself between the current TV series and the potential third film could still have enough material for another appearance or two) and Pirates of the Caribbean. For one thing, there are more Pirate movies that could be adapted. And could Pete’s Dragon, Enchanted, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Black Hole, Mary Poppins, Herbie, or Who Framed Roger Rabbit (sadly minus the non-Disney characters of course) work? Unlikely in some of those cases but maybe. And while it would probably never happen, could you imagine The Muppets in Kingdom Hearts? Oh I can imagine the Muppets in Kingdom Hearts. I can imagine… Similarly while I have my doubts Square could even use them because of rights and what not, there is also always The Avengers and other Marvel characters. If nothing else, the obscure Marvel property Big Hero 6 is getting its own animated featured from Disney.
Or lets go even more out there: how about the Haunted Mansion (the ride, not the movie, definitely not the movie) or Space Mountain? I would suggest Star Tours but we already have enough lightsaber wielding bad guys as it is.
And is it wrong that I dream of a Kingdom Hearts game with the Mad Doctor or even Oswald the Lucky Rabbit as hidden bosses? I will say if the day Square Enix adds crap like G-Force or Beverly Hills Chihuahuas to the series ever comes it will also be the day I wash my hands of the franchise for good. But I am not too worried on that front. 
My point is that there are plenty of Disney worlds left to adapt in Kingdom Hearts. More than enough for any number of future games certainly. And looking ahead to future films like Frozen, Oz: The Great and Powerful, Frankenweenie, or The King of Elves, I don’t expect that to change any time soon.
I actually hope in Kingdom Hearts 3 they add a Muppets world that acts similarly to the Atlantica world in KH2, only with better music and decent gameplay.
How about a world based on other Disney videogames like Epic Mickey.
And then lets not forget all of the Square Enix franchises that can be added.
Deus Ex, Tomb Raider. Hell some more Final Fantasy worlds might be nice, maybe in KH3 Sephiroth will finally *Spoiler* Aerith/Aeris.
I want to see more of Winnie The Pooh. The 100 Acre Woods is my favourite world from Kingdom Hearts 1 and it had a great sub-plot in KH2. I would like to see a new original story for the hundred acre wood in a future game. (Here’s hoping Pooh gets a keyblade.)
I never thought of the tv shows. You make a valid point Shaun. Thank you kindly and hope we will see Kingdom Hearts 3 soon in our life.
P.S. Shadow Man would be an amazing boss.
I don’t want to say that KH has gotten “over complicated” or “convoluted” but I feel that’s it’s gotten more complicated than what it /needed/ to be. I understand that as a series going for this long it needs to branch out but it branched out it ways I don’t think it needed to, like the way it delved into the organization and then brought in the concept of Keyblade Masters and their order. I think what I’m trying to say is that the story feels a bit… disjointed now.
The story was essentially about Sora and it started out with him trying to find his friends while making new and fighting darkness with a mysterious weapon and trying to save the universe. The story as it is now feels so far removed from that it’s like the first game belongs to a different series. I tried playing KH1 and Birth by Sleep back to back and it was a very surreal experience. It’s not the difference in graphics and battle system, it’s that the story feels so different in a weird way, like it’s an alternate universe within the series. Especially since BbS is a prequel and there’s ALWAYS issues in writing backwards and you can see that.
My over all feeling about the handhelds are pretty ambivalent. I’m glad they’re there, even RE:Coded, but from a story and character perspective I don’t think we /needed/ most of them.
*waits in corner*
I never played any of the Kingdom Hearts Titles. But I followed Seans/HopeWithinChaos’s Playthroughs of 1, 2 and Birth by Sleep, additionally I read up on Story etc.
So the only real thing I can talk about is the Story, which I totally agree with NoctisRez that it became unneccessarilly complicated.
In the End it’s just Sora having to beat Xehanort and everything will be fine.
All the Fluff surrounding it seems mostly just tiresome to me and not all that intresting.
That’s actually pretty interesting- during the development of Kingdom Hearts 1, Nomura has stated in interviews that it was his original intention to end the game at the battle with Maleficent- she would be the final boss fight, and there would be no big twist at the end. But then he had a talk with Sakaguchi who still worked at Square-Enix at the time, and he basically told him to go big or go home- you have the opportunity of a lifetime here, if you settle for just delivering the story everyone is expecting you’ll never create a really BIG series. And so Nomura started rethinking the plot, created Ansem (who would later be Xehanort), and the rest is history…
The thing here is- I don’t think you’re WRONG per se, the plot has definitely ballooned up so that it feels like a completely different beast nowadays, but do you think it would be possible for them to make this into a series if they hadn’t? Would there have been a way for them to include stuff like Master Xehanorts plans, the keyblade Masters, the Organization and so on, and still manage to keep the central focus on Sora/keep the story tight and less sprawling? Or would it be impossible for them to have the franchise grow without, at some point, making the story expand well beyond the initial premise of Kingdom Hearts 1?
Or heck, do you think it might even have been better if the game remained a cute little one-off title like Nomura initially planned? My own thoughts is that they would inevitably have to force the world to grow beyond the original plan, but that perhaps this whole ordeal with Keyblade Masters could have waited for, say, another trilogy that would have come after KH1 to 3 had finished. What say you?
Hey have you guys unlocked the secret ending in DDD yet? Its pretty easy to unlock if you know how.
Anyway the secret ending is amazing and it pretty much confirms that the next game will be KH3…although i would like to see a Theatrhythm Kingdom Hearts…
Dont give Square ideas until they release Vs 13 then KH 3
Plus TGS starts at the end of this month
Well i read a interview of Tetsuya Nomura, shortly before KH3D’s release and he said that Square Enix is working on a new KH game, and it will be announced soon, so here’s hoping for KH3
They did? O god, its gonna be a fighting game
Why would it be a fighting game?
I hate to be a hater, I really do, but I was never thrilled by Kingdom Hearts. When I first heard there was going to be a game where Final Fantasy characters were bumping butts with Disney characters, I simply didn’t believe it. It sounded way too weird to be true. Even now, ten years after the fact, it’s still weird.
At any rate, a game with big action in a cartoony world doesn’t appeal to me … especially if it contains sequences like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppj1nXkS4Ok If Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to keep the same tone and appearance, I won’t lose any sleep missing it while it’s on store shelves.
Yeah except that video you are pointing to is also from a set of sequences generally recognized as the worse in the entire series. Its hardly representative of the series as a whole. Here are clips far more indicative of this series at its best: http://youtu.be/WMzTHMfOV3M http://youtu.be/gtTNp_0EsAw http://youtu.be/ojyHsYijMKc http://youtu.be/HkUd5zHmGoc or even this: http://youtu.be/8Gz-Ewd9V2I
Beyond that, if you don’t like the series, you don’t like the series. I am not going to complain or argue on that point. Personal taste is what it is.
Um, well … some of the music is good (Ariel notwithstanding). I’ll give it that much.