Posted By Robert G. about 4 months, 1 week ago
No game of dejarik can be won without pawns, and this may prove to be a very long game…
Warning: The following contains spoilers. You have been warned.
It is established that many RPGs today tend to follow a system of “choice” that can lead to a more definitive role-playing experience. Most console RPGs, from Final Fantasy to Dragon Age, follow this through a linear progression to a final conclusion, but it is the choices typically made during the journey that make up the role-playing experience. In the past decade, many of these choices have come in the form of “light and dark side” points; primarily stemming from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
Because of this, many games today offer a typical “light side choice” which is to emulate the good nature of the player characters choices, and the “dark side choice”, what would emulate a characters more sinister actions in-game. While over time the system has morphed into something more fluid, in the beginning it marked the extreme contrasts to how to role-play; being rewarded by being a paragon of hope or a master of hatred, with little incentive for a mode of neutrality. But one of the most curious arguments for this neutrality comes in one of the most complex companions ever to grace the KOTOR series, the manipulative being known as Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.
Kreia as a character is rather difficult to understand, because for the entire game she represents several different tropes found in storytelling; the first as a philosopher and mentor to her student, the self named Jedi Exile that the player creates. The second is a great manipulator, using her powers to slyly coerce other characters, including the Exile, to fulfill her goals. The last trope is that of true neutrality, stemming from a singular desire of hers. In the very poignant twist in the game, Kreia is both a Jedi and a Sith, both light and dark, and an enemy to what she blames as the source for all suffering in the galaxy; the Force itself.
Little is known about Kreia’s past, other than that she was a powerful Jedi Counselor whose most famous pupil, Darth Revan from the first KOTOR title, would eventually cause her exile from the Jedi Order. Because of her unorthodox teachings, Kreia was among those blamed by the Order for the open defiance of Darth Revan during the Mandalorian wars. This exile made Kreia question her own beliefs; eventually coming across the Sith Academy on Malachor V. It was here she began to study Sith teachings, eventually being seduced by their arguments and taking the name Darth Traya, the Lord of Betrayal.
As Darth Traya, Kreia would rebuild the Sith Empire with the help of the Sith Triumvirate; including herself and her two pupils, Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, and Darth Nihilus, the Lord of Hunger. Unbeknownst to her, however, both Sion and Nihilus planned to betray her, growing weary of her teachings and believing her to be a weak Sith. In one of the most memorable flashbacks in KOTOR II, Kreia reveals her past to the Exile, showing the betrayal of her former apprentices, once again being cast from another order of Force users.
What constitutes a good character? Join me in this series that attempts to look at these characters and tries to peel away the layers of depth they have. Join me as we find Characters with Character. This week is Kreia.
It was during my refreshing that I stumbled onto (what I considered a myth at the time) restored content for Knights of the Old Republic II. It was while I wrote my review of the game that I was playing through said restored content, and I want you to take the journey with me.
So, how well did Avellone and company do with the follow up to Revan’s storyline? Is it worth backtracking to experience this game, or is it just a minor disturbance in The Force?
What constitutes a good character? Join me in this series that attempts to look at these characters and tries to peel away the layers of depth they have. Join me as we find Characters with Character. This week is Kreia.
Posted By Micah C. about 1 year, 4 months ago
Knights of the Old Republic 2 Review
The best way that I could describe Obsidian Entertainment is an RPG brain trust. The minds behind games like Fallout and Planescape: Torment all banded together to create the development house, so it goes without saying that Obsidian has a lot of talent under their roof. However, what happens when this fledgling developer is asked to follow up what could easily be considered the best RPG of the last console generation? This is the situation that Obsidian found themselves in with Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 2. So, how well did Avellone and company do with the follow up to Revan’s storyline? Is it worth backtracking to experience this game, or is it just a minor disturbance in The Force?
| PROS | Improved gameplay, great sound design, solid story |
| CONS | Blatantly rushed to production, leaving massive plot holes |
| WTF?! | The ending. The f*#@ing ending. |
The story of KOTOR 2 takes place five years after the end of the Jedi Civil War. You are an exiled Jedi, who has awoken in a mining facility called Peragus. You can’t remember how you got there, and your only help out of the place is a decrepit old Jedi named Kreia, and a scoundrel named Atton Rand. From there, you have to unravel the mystery of what kind of Sith nightmare is hounding you from one corner of the galaxy to another, and how it is that they’re exterminating the remnants of the Jedi Order. From here on in, your goal is to find the hidden Jedi, and help to rebuild what was lost during the war between Revan and Malak.
Since I’m a person who doesn’t like to spoil anything, I can’t really give any major plot details for this game. What I will say is that Chris Avellone took Star Wars and steered it down a very, very dark path. The types of stories that most people who know of the franchise are used to are grandiose, interstellar war stories with tons of neat characters. The Sith Lords is a much darker, more personal story. Rather than being about the fate of the galaxy in some massive space battle, the storyline is focused on personal wars, and dealing with a dark history. For better or worse, the entire plot of KOTOR 2 has a large shadow over it, cast by Revan and his actions in the last game. It’s a very interesting shift from the original, and is done very, very well.
The storyline takes the player to some dark places in the Star Wars universe.
From a presentation standpoint, not much has really changed since the original game. There are a few minor design changes, however. One difference that was warranted was the design of certain items, such as the Jedi Robes, and the inclusion of more lightsaber colors. This allows the player to have a few more options, on top of the Jedi robes looking more like their movie counterparts, rather than a mystic version of the SS Totenkompf. However, the sound effects associated with all of the items are still excellent, and very true to the universe that they come from. Despite the fact that the story takes place thousands of years before the films, everything still feels very familiar in comparison to the rest of the universe.
One element of the sound design that helps the storyline to come alive is the tremendous care that was put into the voice acting. Like with the previous game, KOTOR 2 has a stellar voice cast. John Cygan and Kristoffer Tabori return to reprise their roles as Canderous and HK-47 respectively. However, the show is mostly run by the work of Sarah Kestelman (Kreia) and Nicky Katt (Atton Rand), who play the two most vocal NPC’s. As with any game with a deep storyline, though, the voice acting needs to be capable of making each character feel feasible to the player, and each of the voice actors do this very well. To speak to the depth of this game’s cast, seasoned voice actors like Robin Atkin Downes and Phil LaMarr are cast as minor roles. This was a game highly devoted to making everything seem alive and breathing, and it pulls everything off well.
The soundtrack is another element of this game that was well done, and well applied on top of it. Now, the composer of the game isn’t really someone who I would define as a special talent. His name is Mark Griskey, and most of his career has been spent doing the soundtracks to Star Wars games. However, KOTOR 2 is probably his best work. Griskey does a solid job of taking a pot of John Williams, and adding in a nice helping of Danny Elfman to capture the grandiose nature of Star Wars, but keeping the dark tone that the developers intended. Each scene in the game is properly accented by the music that Griskey has put together. The music is booming when it needs to be, and accents the moods perfectly whenever a conversation comes about. Its best moments come in the battles with the aforementioned Sith Lords, where it seems the music does a fantastic job of reflecting the dark hearts of your enemies.
This damn game… dammit it pissed me off so much. I liked how they increased the level cap to 50, but dammit I don’t think the story cared nearly as much about the side characters as they did in the first game. I mean basically all the characters you bring into the party serve little more purpose in the story then to serve as acquisitions and even then their plot threads are still hanging there even at the end of the game!!!! What happens to them is pretty ambiguous considering you have to go off on your own, ALONE at the end of the game to face Kreia… so… what the hell was the point of telling more people “come with me on my super-awesome adventure to beat the Sith!”.
KOTOR 2 was in my opinion a less than satisfying experience to put it very mildly.
Totenkopf, please. Totenkompf is close to being a real word, yet not quite close enough.
Otherwise, I’d have liked you to go into more detail on the plot holes and the missing/incomplete content but it was a good review anyway.
The gameplay, everyone can agree, was much better.
And yet…
This whole game was obviously rushed and not thought through.
The ending was inexcusable, I am referring to the palace place when you are fighting supposed “sith lords, assassins, etc.” THEY ARE JUST CIVILIANS MODELS WITH LIGHTSABERS!
If you are the Sith Lord class, as soon as you learn force clutch, or clamp or whatever its called you can just spam that move to kill everyone, even the bosses while taking no damage.
Almost no characters completed their story lines. Inexcusable compared to the first game in which every character had a point for being in the party and had a storyline with an ending. In fact, they kept files in the game which had story line parts for some characters that they didn’t get to finish. So it’s obvious from that evidence that they were just making up the storylines and plot as they went along.
I could go on, but ultimately a lazily made, rushed, and ultimately BORING game. They took a HUGE step back with the story, and you can’t make a good RPG without blending the best of both worlds, gameplay and story.
Personally I never understood the amount of hatred the game gets. Having played it twice I can understand all it’s flaws and the unresolved plots hurt. But they hurt because it’s a great game with interseting, fully developed, diverse and less cliché characters.
Even in the direct comparison with KOTOR1 I still prefer the overall tone of the sequel. It’s darker and more edgy in tone. The shift to a somewhat bleaker world does the StarWars Universe a world of good, since it gives more shades of gray to the otherwise very narrow views of good Jedi and evil Sith.
Unfortunatly it is very much Obsidians curse to creat games that are good or very good, but none the less fall short of their true potential. Just look at Neverwinter Nights 2 or Alpha Protocol or Fallout: NewVegas; they have all only slightly missed the mark of beeing revered RPG classics.
I may sound like a hater here but In my eyes it is the truth….
Kotor 2 is way superior to the previous game.
Though gameplay-wise the game haven’t brought anything new or any Major Improvement.
The storyline & characters part the game nailed it in every possible way.
KOTOR 1 was a cliche storm with uninspired dialogues & paper-thin characters, except for HK-47, Jolee Bindo & Canderous.
KOTOR 2 on the other hand did their best effort to bring an intelligent dialogue, without the black or White path of KOTOR 1.
Characters with incredible depth like Kreia for example.
An explored philosophy of the Sith & the ways of the Force in many layers that made the Star Wars universe look unique & original, taking away the Good Vs Evil storyline.
In my Opinion this is the Best Star Wars Title next to Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast.
Keep in mind that I haven’t played Force Unleashed or any Battlefront yet.
Despite the game’s flaws, I still love this game. I have played through it at least 7 times.
I would like to play it again some time, with the content mods of course. If I can only get it to work…
Reviewed this on my show a while ago; it has a lot of stuff that should have been in KOTOR 1, but at the same time it was missing a lot of stuff KOTOR 1 had, like complete story arcs and Q&A testing.
I made the mistake of playing this game before I played KOTOR. On the bright side I was able to put the holed in this ones story down to the fact I had not played the first game and so was not really disappointed, on the bad side it meant I did miss some of the upgrades when I did play KOTOR, particularly being able to convert party members to the dark side.
LucasArts does this a lot, you have to remember. The first game comes out and does really well, a trilogy is planned, then the second game is rushed out the door unfinished and the third game is canceled for an undefinable reason.
Happened with Kotor, happened with Force Unleashed.
Not saying Force Unleashed was anywhere near as good as Kotor, just saying, LucasArts needs to give these games a damned chance. Honestly they’re as bad as Hollywood.
I logged in JUST to say this, and made an account.
SWKoTOR 1 was my favorite X-box game. I loved it, and played it a few times.
I always felt KoTOR 2 was too short. I mean we never know for sure of Hand Maiden ((I forget her real name)) died or not. It seems like alot of the stuff was just really fast or something. It was really annoying. I always went for the male Revan ((I know that’s not his name but the male character)) and tried to get both the girls lol. Both of them sort of had endings but I was always left feeling disjointed. It was also really jarring.
I didn’t realize their was a removed content patch for P.C. I may look into it now.
i love the game but i gotta agree, it was rushed and the ending sucks major ass
This is considered retro?!?!
…
Man, I’m getting old.
But, yeah. I always see this game series, like I see the Bioshock games. First one was a phenomenal hit gathering a good fanbase and with that fan base came a rushed sequel that played as well as the original, but lacked the heart that made the original so great. But with both cases, the games aren’t half bad. Glad to see a review of this.
This game should be on Steam =/
For those that are looking for the restored content mod look here: http://deadlystream.com/forum/forum/4-tslrcm/
I recently started another playthrough to see the changes in action, but the beginning (Mining Facility & Telos) is so painfully slow, it’s going to take me a while to see them.
I was looking forward to that mod that reconstructed all the content that was on the disc but not in the game, but I don’t know whether it’s been given up on or if it’s really taking this long.
KotOR was one of my favourite games, I thought KotOR 2 was rushed like you said, and I was one of those annoyed by the fact that SWtOR is an MMO that won’t be resolving the stories of characters I really enjoyed playing. Hopefully a KotOR 3 is released one day which brings Revan and The Exile together, fills the plot holes of KotOR, and gives fans the finale they want. Won’t hold my breath though.
Isn’t it?! In all the previews i’ve seen it is! Now i’m really confused… I really gotta go to bed…
Uh, look at the release date. You’re thinking The Old Republic, which isn’t even out yet.
This review is about a sequel to a game released in the last console generation. You know, like it says in the opening paragraph?
Yeah, right. I was up REALLY late when i read that, and obviously didn’t read it very well. I’m awake now, though. I didn’t even notice there was a second page! Real sorry, Micah. So, if an admin could please delete my stupid comment, i would be so grateful. Until then, i politely ask everybody to thumb my first comment down. HARD. I know i will!
Es tut mir wirklich Leid.
If it is in a galaxy far far away, does that mean no one can hear you scream? I want to scream from all the Star Wars games that come out but they have never released a solid spot on Star Trek game. They can’t even release a Star Trek monopoly game. Could be a interesting title though, I should play the first one if they are going by story this time around.
It was during my refreshing that I stumbled onto (what I considered a myth at the time) restored content for Knights of the Old Republic II. It was while I wrote my review of the game that I was playing through said restored content, and I want you to take the journey with me.
One of the coolest bars in gaming also happens to be one of the most interesting.
Kreia was by far my favorite character in KOTOR 2 beening not only a damn good villian, but also a good mentor in the ways of the force. I believe she is one of obsidians crowning achivements.
Nice article, very well written. Kreia is personally one of my favoriate villians in gaming, and was a large reason why i enjoyed KOTOR 2, warts and all. I think she went through a really interesting story arc, even if it was obvious from the bigining she was a bad guy, her character was interesting and deep enough that you could over look that just to hear her own philosophy and interact with the player and other characters.
My own favoriate scene with her is the one were a begger asks you for money, and her response to you reguardless of what you did. It helped give a sense of gravity to your choices beyond the act of making them and how even if you make the right choice, the same outcome can still occur.
I was huge into the Star Wars EU back in the day. The book series up to about 2000 were a collection for me, and I actually read all of it, about 45 books at the time. Then they started a new line and I, for whatever reason, opted out. I guess perhaps because Vision of the Future was just this great cap on the series.
A few years back, while I was playing KotOR, I decided to do a wiki dive and see what had happened after I stopped following the series. The Vong, Legacy of the Force, Darth Caduceus, etc. I also ran across a comprehensive character sheet on Kreia. And it was something special, because when a character of unabashed villainy like Kreia can still make you agree completely with their goals, and let you follow perfect their logic, it’s not something you soon forget. Jedi and Sith, fighting eternally to satisfy some nebulous destiny for a capricious, unfeeling god? Yeah. That… really is what it feels like, when you really sit down and examine the history of the Galaxy.
But technicly she manipulates you so wouldn’t that make her evil.
Technically, maybe, but here’s the real issue: Kreia rejects both the Dark Side and the Light Side of the Force. Kreia’s disposition and actions call into question whether either side is truly “good” or truly “evil.” The Jedi, in their drive to strive for balance, have committed acts that could be described as evil, and therefore prove that, despite their philosophical leanings, they can be just as cruel and wicked as their eternal foes, the Sith.
In her experience, every act of good is counterbalanced by an equal evil reaction. Help an orphan, and that orphan might end up robbing someone later. Feed someone who is hungry, you deprive yourself of food. In the end, all acts of good or evil cause great harm.
The problem – and this is where I do have to take exception to Lucas’ dualistic worldview – is that great evils can and often are accomplished in the desire to do good, and great goods can result from evil desires. What matters really isn’t the actions themselves, but the motives behind them. This is why Darth Vader was so easily seduced to the Dark Side: he didn’t like what the Jedi were doing, even when what they did was absolutely necessary, and saw only the potential – not the negative consequences – of the Dark Side.
In effect, Kreia actually in a lot of ways represents the true Jedi ideal: balance. Her actions are dictated by a desire to see perfect balance achieved, and to her, this means balancing out both the light and dark sides of the Force as well. Ultimately, her goal was to eliminate the Force from the equation entirely because its presence only increased the potential of both light and darkness, which in turn destroyed the delicate balance she hoped to see.
That she is willing to manipulate and control shows she is willing to use evil means to accomplish her goals. But the fact that she sacrificed her hand – and would have sacrificed herself as well, if doing so insured the survival of the Exile – shows that she is also willing to use noble means to accomplish the same goals.
Regardless of the problems present in Knights of the Old Republic 2 due to its rushed release, there were many things about it I thought were extremely well done. Kreia was one of those things.
In almost all games where there is a good side and an evil side, nearly everyone fits cleanly into one of those roles. Kreia’s one of the only characters, if not the only one, I can think of who fits into that true neutral category perfectly. It was so interesting to hear her teach against both the Jedi and Sith teachings at different times, not to mention manipulating practically everything in the game to her own ends. She’s seriously one of the most interesting and well-written characters I’ve ever seen in an RPG.
Most definitely a good choice for one of these articles Robert. It was a good read. I can’t wait to see the winning article for the contest.
(possible spoiler)
One of the most interesting things you learn about Kreia, and something that is totally optional, is her connection to the handmaiden. It gives a glimpse even farther back in Kreia’s origin.
After thinking about it I realized that it was really stupid to put a spoiler warning on a comment in a spoiler tagged article. Giving myself an extra thumbs down for that. Also didn’t want to outright point out what the connection is because that would ruin the surprise, but yet again, spoiler tagged article. Kreia is the Handmaiden’s mother. Also Snape killed Dumbledore.
I really need to stop posting when I’m sick and can’t think properly.
If memory serves, “Word of God” on whether Kreia is the mother of the Handmaiden or not is “Can’t comment, but good catch. Sorry”. Usually when Chris Avellone says “good catch” or “nice catch” it translates to “Wasn’t intentional, but I like…” xD