Battlefield 3

Players: 1 Offline player, 32(64-PC) Players Online
Publisher: Electronic Arts
Genres: First-person Shooter
Release Date: October 25, 2011
Developer: EA Digital Illusions CE
MSRP: $59.99
Platforms:
Battlefield 3 leaps ahead of its time with the power of Frostbiteā„¢ 2, the next instalment of DICE's cutting-edge game engine. This state-of-the-art technology is the foundation on which Battlefield 3 is built, delivering enhanced visual quality, a grand sense of scale, massive destruction, dynamic audio and incredibly lifelike character animations. As bullets whiz by, walls crumble, and explosions throw you to the ground, the battlefield feels more alive and interactive than ever before. In Battlefield 3, players step into the role of the elite U.S. Marines where they will experience heart-pounding missions across diverse locations including Paris, Tehran and New York.

Is Battlefield 3 the next best shooter? Daniel from ZGR gives you his thoughts!

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VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
  (28 votes, average 3.8 out of 5)

Three British Idiots Play Battlefield 3 Beta (Wez, Larry & Ian)

Wez, Larry and Ian glitch their way through the Battlefield 3 Beta in this very funny video!

Battlefield 3 Video Review - ZGR

Is Battlefield 3 the next best shooter? Daniel from ZGR gives you his thoughts!

Battlefield 3 Review (PC)

In one of the only examples ever where Frostbite sends Johnny somewhere he'd wind up getting sand in his crotch, his charged task of reviewing Battlefield 3 is now complete. By reading it, you'll be taking part in the initial stages of "Operation Sugar Pants!"

Angry Joe Plays Battlefield 3

Angry Joe and Johnny M. of Blistered Thumbs tackle BF3's Cooperative missions together while discussing this highly anticipated FPS heavyweight!

Sage Reviews: Battlefield 3

Battlefield may have beaten Call of Duty to the punch, but does that mean it's any good?
  1. October 29, 2011 at 05:46pm
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    Another military FPS that is mostly multiplayer game.

  2. October 29, 2011 at 06:20am
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    Dear Daniel from Zeitgeist:

    Thank you for putting together an excellent review for Battlefield 3. Out of the reviews and articles I’ve read for this game so far, you and Johnny from Blistered Thumbs put together strong arguments both supporting and criticizing it. I too have had a great time playing this game for my Xbox 360, and my friend and I love doing Co-Op. I’m a little disappointed that this game wasn’t very much like or recommended on this site, but oddly enough, some articles have different ratings. Like this one had 64% disliking, but on another article, it was half and half. Either way, if I was to say one thing to all people about Battlefield 3, is that it is definitely worth a play at least. I understand if you don’t want to buy the game flat out, but it definitely is a must play for this year. Here’s hoping this franchise might finally show CoD that it’s not the only shooter out on the market.

    With regards,
    Lolzman87

  3. October 28, 2011 at 01:24pm
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    I think the main reason why I am disappointed with the Campaign is due to the fact that DICE has proven they can do a well thought out single player experience with Bad Company 1. While the story of the first Bad Company was not exactly fleshed out, it was certainly original and had great characters that both lightened the mood and allowed you to get invested in. However Bad Company 2 ruined that when it went all Modern Warfare; instead of trying to do their own story, they ended up doing what every other FPS has been telling since 2007.

    I did enjoy moments in the single player experience, although I did find some of the quick time events to be pointless and out of place. I did notice some audio problems as well such as the quick time event in the first mission when you fight the PLR when you follow the cable. The audio is pretty off. Overall, it’s a cliche story yet I do love the train sequence at the beginning but that’s just because I’m a sucker for anything happening on a train.

  4. October 28, 2011 at 07:19am
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    Looks like Duty Calls both summarized and predicted the plots of all modern military shooters past, present and future.
    Not that I particularly care about either franchise but that singleplayer campaign sounds like the last two Call of Duty SP campaigns. Interrogation and Flashbacks? Black Ops; Playing as multiple characters throughout the campaign? COD, MW2

    I was considering getting this game but now that I know they still have this retarded browserbased battlelog interface they used in the beta, I’m absolutely certain I won’t have any of that. Top that off with this Origin mess and we’ve got ourselves a juicy “I won’t have any of that” sandwich.

    • October 28, 2011 at 02:17pm
      In response to Threeshades
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      You realize that the Cod franchise ripped of the BF series right? BF3 has been in production since 2009, and BO and MW3 both come out in the three year time frame. Its sad to see this game take heat when they thought of this stuff first, only to have a company who doesnt give a shit about thier games come and steal thier ideas as th put out a game a year. BF practicly wrote Black Ops and MW3 for them. Its why i hate the frachise so much, not because of the actual game, but they steal from other games and take the credit which is wrong.

      • October 28, 2011 at 04:59pm
        In response to EpicWin57
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        Nope, to be quite frank I didn’t know that. But as I said I don’t care too much for either franchise. I played most Battlefield games actually (only ones I missed are 1942, BC1 and Heroes) and like them, but I generally don’t care about the BF vs CoD fanwar. I just made an observation based on what I, well, observed. Anyway thanks for clearing that up.

        • October 28, 2011 at 09:08pm
          In response to Threeshades
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          All good. I didnt mean to sound like i attacked you either. I think the Fan war is retarded. Cant i just say i like BF better without having a lynch mob on stand by x) lol Glad to see someone who has a level head :)

  5. October 28, 2011 at 06:59am
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    The things that I disliked the most about the single player campaign were:
    - your team’s idiotic AI (constantly jumping in front of you to the point where the “friendly fire will not be tolerated” sign was showing up during every fire fight and even to the extent where the game glitched me out by one of my teammates pushing me through a wall when i was in cover; plus it would be nice if they actually shot somebody instead of just sitting in the best logical cover for you, waiting for you to do everything)
    - the “leaving battlefield area” signs even if you go somewhere you would think would be the right way to go
    - the graphics ARE NOT that good (yes, I installed the texture map) and I can’t see who the hell is shooting me half the time (the lights glaring my vision in the dark and you can’t shoot out some of the lights but others you can?)
    - the ridiculous accuracy of the enemy AI compared to your accuracy even using if you are using the same gun
    - the vehicle segment controls
    - the boring story
    - glitching through objects
    - not being able to advance til the game feels like it
    - unnecessary quicktime events

    I did like the atmosphere of the game and there were definitely some cool parts in the game that felt realistic, but those parts only made the bad parts stick out like a sore thumb.

  6. October 28, 2011 at 05:15am
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    Origin killed this game for me. Yeah, the BS with the EULA and EA supposedly collecting and selling your information was a complete deal breaker for me. PC was my only option, so I’m out of luck. Shame, because this was the first FPS I’ve really found myself interested in for a long time. :/

  7. October 28, 2011 at 02:32am
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    Nice overview of the game. One note about the PC version though you didn’t mention (Although it’s been mentioned elsewhere on BT) There is no natvie Windows XP support. Just a minor quibble, but you’d be amazed how many don’t read or check system requirements when buying computer games, open them, and then are shocked, SHOCKED to learn they cannot return an open license. Even though the store receipt, and EULA (Which they also never bothered to read) say this.
    But now I’ve begun to ramble. :p

  8. October 27, 2011 at 10:39pm
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    Its obvious.”hey the BF3 review is up!” BF fan : Great game. Cod fan: Horrible game. Just ignore the fan opinion, i doubt some of the people voting have even played it.

    • October 28, 2011 at 06:43am
      In response to EpicWin57
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      I played the game and as somebody who wanted this game to succeed and not taking favorites, I have to say it is still a mess.

  9. October 27, 2011 at 06:50pm
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    I have to disagree with on some issues here. First, there were a few times where the game literally froze on me during single player. I don’t know about anyone else if they are having the same problem but if I had to restart my console a few times then something is up. Secondly, while I really liked the variety in the missions, including tank driving and flying a jet, I didn’t think it was that immersive. Something was just off-putting to me that I couldn’t shake. I can’t put my finger on it but the campaign had something that I felt could have handled better or that it didn’t need. Also, I don’t know if this happened to anyone else but I encountered several glitches during the campaign, even dying out of nowhere. If anyone else has these problems, please let me know.

  10. October 27, 2011 at 06:33pm
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    So the overall public verdict on Battlefield 3 is: It’s a Multiplayer game, with a Campaign as a bonus.

    • October 27, 2011 at 07:06pm
      In response to KiwiInspace
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      I’d say whether or not it’s a “bonus” depends on your experience with previous games in the series.

      The reason I say that is considering Battlefield never had a campaign until the Bad Company games, and the Bad Company games aren’t considered proper Battlefield games because they lacked maps large enough to support 64 players as well as air planes/jets that were in BF2 and return in BF3, as well as Prone and other features– the fact that the campaign is included and is equal to campaigns found in other similar games makes it more than a bonus for people who started with Bad Company. If you started with BF2142 or a game prior to it then yes the campaign is a bonus.

      As a fan of BF2 I would have been fine with BF3 if it didn’t have a campaign at all, so I’d agree that it’s a bonus *for fans of Battlefield 2*. I’d argue that because consoles are where publishers will sell the most copies and console players pretty much require a campaign this isn’t really a bonus for them as much as meeting a pre-requisite and checking it off on the back of the game case.

      That’s just my perspective because I’ve been playing Battlefield games for over 6 years.

      • October 28, 2011 at 02:25am
        In response to Tyr4nt
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        I would agree with most of this.There are a lot of folks who buy games for the single player, and never touch multiplayer. But while more common on consoles, there are computer gamers who do the same. Battlefield was one of the last series to have no SP, along with Unreal Tournament, and Quake. Honestly, I feel this game combines the best of the original 1942 (Large maps, vehicles, high damage weapons) with the best of BFBC2 (Destructable environments, Spotting, Modified run speed) for a really great game. It’s just too bad battlelog is implemented so poorly, having to leave, and restart the game everytime you want to change servers, and that it has to be two processes running at all times. Hopefully they can patch out the minor problems, and patch in a server browser built into the exe. On the whole though great game. Since the game came out I’ve lost several hours of sleep not realizing the time.

  11. October 27, 2011 at 04:50pm
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    Wow this was an early review. Good job dude.

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Angry Joe and Johnny M. of Blistered Thumbs tackle BF3′s Cooperative missions together while discussing this highly anticipated FPS heavyweight!

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Posted By about 6 months, 3 weeks ago

In one of the only examples ever where Frostbite sends Johnny somewhere he’d wind up getting sand in his crotch, his charged task of reviewing Battlefield 3 is now complete. By reading it, you’ll be taking part in the initial stages of “Operation Sugar Pants!”

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Battlefield 3 Review (PC)

Battlefield 3 Review (PC)


Battlefield 1942 marked a turning point for my online gaming. Not in the sense that I started to play online with larger groups of people on larger maps, rather that I continued to play online with the same small group of people and just discovered there were more ways to arse around in Battlefield 1942 than in your regular first person shooter. ā€œA first person shooter that lets me fly a twin engine bomber over enemy lines just so I can jump out, wreck the plane, and get shot in the face on my way down? That sounds like a great way to spend a hundred hours!ā€ As the saying goes, that was then and this is now, and Battlefield has had more than just a few incarnations of actual wars, future wars, and the scaaaaaaaary wars that could be happening RIGHT NOW!! Perhaps not that scary, but everybody’s been giving me grief about not getting in the Halloween spirit. Battlefield 3 now marks Electronic Arts’ latest entry into the series, with the lofty goal of toppling ā€œthe (apparently) most anticipated game everā€ of Modern Warfare off whatever decadent throne it now sits atop.

PROSIt’s gorgeous, it sounds amazing, its variety, FROSTBITE 2!
CONSShort campaign, some weird AI paths, PC specific functionality problems
WTF?!I swear I’ve seen THAT guy in Transformers.

He’s been in 24, CSI and Bones as well.

No, seriously… I’ve seen that guy in Transformers. What’s even stranger, is that he’s also going to be in Modern Warfare 3 – what a racket! There’s even a fighter pilot that bears a strange resemblance to Michael J. Fox. That’s all immaterial however, we’re here to talk about the game.

Battlefield 3 is a game about shooting people with a variety of weapons. Got that? Good. Roll credits!

Now that’s out of the way, let’s dig out the core. Describing the gameplay of Battlefield 3 in detail is a fairly pointless affair, because if you’ve played any other multiplayer Battlefield game, you’ve played something quite similar to this. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but it pretty much primes you for what you can expect: conquest, rush, and a variety of deathmatch options in a variety of climate regions, with vehicles, a cavalcade of unlockable items, awards, badges, dogtags to collect, perks, and so on. A change or two has been made, such as the amalgamation of the medic class into the assault class, starting you out with medic packs and unlocking defibrillator paddles in what I think was the first rank advancement. PC players too are witness to the return of jets, as well as the 64 player conquest maps which can get pretty hectic (so long as you’re not walking everywhere).

Even if you did decide to walk everywhere, aesthetes would certainly enjoy themselves most of the time. Right out of the gate, it’s pretty obvious that this is one of, if not the, best looking game to hit the market this year. Previously I had awarded that honor to CD Projekt Red’s The Witcher 2, but some of the sprawling outdoor areas throw my admiration for it and other open world army games like ARMA II under the truck, run it over several times, and rub broken glass in its face, all before I remember that I loved ARMA II as a game before I could make her pretty. (I still love you baby… we’re a team, you an’ me!) While good looking however, Battlefield 3 does adhere to a strange habit games appear to be taking these days, in that it’s not necessarily trying to look more realistic, rather than how people perceive war as “realistic” through pop culture. The strangest example of this here to me is the grit and dust on the screen that in any real situation would likely cause a horrible conjunctivitis infection doesn’t seem to bother anybody. It’s still an impressive graphic effect, obviously taken from camera effects in movies and TV, but I screw my eyes up in confusion sometimes, wondering why it’s there.

I do believe somebody should have taken that left turn at Albequerque.

These excellent visuals are brilliantly punctuated by immaculate sound design. The distant snap sounds of guns change incrementally the closer you get to them, echoes ringing in valleys pour through the speakers, and the delays between firing noises and the sounds of rounds striking your cover as the dull hum of an unfriendly motor whirrs closer to your desperate position strike phenomenal reactionary responses. Even conversations carried out in the campaign bounce off environments impeccably, with the small touches of chairs squeaking, or papers shuffling. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that many of the cutscenes were filmed, and then animated over in a rotoscoping-like fashion.
Battlefield 3 Video Review – ZGR, 3.8 out of 5 based on 28 ratings

8/10

Three British Idiots Play Battlefield 3 Beta (Wez, Larry & Ian)

Wez, Larry and Ian glitch their way through the Battlefield 3 Beta in this very funny video!

Battlefield 3 Video Review - ZGR

Is Battlefield 3 the next best shooter? Daniel from ZGR gives you his thoughts!

Battlefield 3 Review (PC)

In one of the only examples ever where Frostbite sends Johnny somewhere he'd wind up getting sand in his crotch, his charged task of reviewing Battlefield 3 is now complete. By reading it, you'll be taking part in the initial stages of "Operation Sugar Pants!"

Angry Joe Plays Battlefield 3

Angry Joe and Johnny M. of Blistered Thumbs tackle BF3's Cooperative missions together while discussing this highly anticipated FPS heavyweight!

Sage Reviews: Battlefield 3

Battlefield may have beaten Call of Duty to the punch, but does that mean it's any good?
  1. November 07, 2011 at 12:08am
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    It seems like Modern/Near-Future war shooters are now like WW2 shooters in how there are so damn many of em.

    As for this game, I definitely liked it, despite its annoyances like the Battlelog issue and if a server has a bad latency rate, its unplayable due to the player keep back-stepping while you move and shots will miss even if up close on the target. With that, the MP is pretty good and I like the feeling of the sniper class.

    The campaign definitely ain’t worth writing home about, I’m probably willing to say its slightly better than the MW2 and BO campaigns, but nothing I’m going to play twice (though I could say that even to the great campaigns, guess the momentum of the first playrthrough just can’t be captured again.) For the most part, I think its worth the score it got, still got plenty more games to play this year though.

  2. October 31, 2011 at 02:18am
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    (About the video review:)
    Judging a Battlefield game by it’s singleplayer is like judging Yoda by his size. Sense it makes not.

  3. October 28, 2011 at 04:03pm
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    Personally, Battlelog is a non-issue. It doesn’t hamper my experience, it has some nice features, and it works great to get me into a game. I’ve seen people go totally negative on it and I don’t think that is fair at all. You get into games much quicker than you would an ingame browser and generally everything works as it should. Some things can be a tad iffy, but when I hear people say that Battlelog is the reason they won’t get BF3, I laugh at how they are missing out on a game for a simply ridiculous reason.

    A great review though as I would pretty much agree with this. While the singleplayer is competent, it doesn’t really do anything new and is way too familiar to what Black Ops did last year, though with abit more realism than that, but still an idea already used. I actually don’t know why they have those cutscenes there as to me, it seems like they could’ve almost removed the flashback stuff entirely and not hurt the game, though I still am a few levels from completion.

    The multiplayer is top notch though. It does MANY things better than Bad Company 2, though people who played that will still be familiar with the game, same for BF2 veterans, though it’s very much an amalgam of both series. This game is gonna keep me hooked for a long time, especially with consistent expansion packs over the next 6 months, starting with Back to Karkand in December.

    • October 28, 2011 at 05:03pm
      In response to MSHHitman
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      Might be just that it screwed up in the beta most of the time (1 out of 5 attempts to join a game succeeded for me, this is not counting when I got in and was immediately kicked or lagged out for whatever reason), but I got fairly irritated by it and I have no intention of going through that again.
      Also the fact that you have to actually start a game to change your settings, then in case of some graphics settings leave and start another one if you actually intend to play with those settings is ridiculous.

      • October 28, 2011 at 07:50pm
        In response to Threeshades
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        Well that was because of Beta. I haven’t had any issues with Battlelog since Beta and it all seems to work just fine, though of course it’s hardly perfect. The settings thing again, isn’t an issue, that your kinda trying to make it out to be. Even if the game had an ingame menu instead and you are able to change your settings, you would have to restart your game anyways if the settings said so, so I’m not really seeing the problem here. And really, how often is a person changing his settings? You do it once till you get it running right, if it isn’t already doing so, and then you never touch them again.

        • October 29, 2011 at 07:25am
          In response to MSHHitman
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          I guess now that I wouldn’t have to find and connect to a multiplayer game for that, but can instead do it by starting a single player game, or possibly hosting my own (if that’s possible), I guess it’s not that much of a hassle anymore.

    • October 31, 2011 at 08:44pm
      In response to MSHHitman
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      Origin is more than enough reason to not get the game.

  4. October 28, 2011 at 03:32pm
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    It amazes me how these companies can continue to produce these straight-faced, military themed shooters and how people can keep buying them up like hot-cakes. I know it’s old hat to hate on shooters right now, but I still don’t get it. How can people NOT get bored of this stuff? I can only hope that soon enough shooters will go the way of the JRPG when people get tired of playing through the same old archetypes with a fresh coat of paint and the releases will become farther and fewer between. Maybe the next gaming trend will appeal to me more.

    Saying it out loud, that does sound a bit selfish, but oh well. I doubt it will happen anytime soon, anyway.

    • October 28, 2011 at 05:51pm
      In response to axlryder
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      I originally hadn’t intended to buy this, but because of a reviewing schedule snafu, it got dropped in my lap. I do agree with you that the military shooter has been played out, and I don’t nearly enjoy them as much as I do other genres these days. That said, I felt like it would be unfair to review BF3 against a backdrop of other genres of games. It’s almost as if the “war fps” has become a genre independent of the fps altogether. I wouldn’t recommend people buy it until there was a price drop, but then as time goes on and I see more and more $60 titles from companies like Ubisoft, Activision and EA, I’m feeling I have to draw a hard line in the sand.

      It goes without saying that if you’re sick and tired of war fps games, then BF3 does *not* deserve an 8. But if we were all to review games on whether or not they tread familiar ground, it’d be a much crueller profession indeed. Judging from your comment, you’d do well to save your money… it doesn’t do anything new or groundbreaking.

    • October 28, 2011 at 11:28pm
      In response to axlryder
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      I asked this question to someone else a few weeks ago who said pretty much the same thing (and they never answered me). How would you change shooters to be more original and “not Boring”

      I will be honest, I don’t buy shooters for the campaign, bought BF3 on 360 and havnt even used the campaign disc. Its all about the multiplayer and while the general mechanics of shooters remains the same, it is the new maps, weapons, gadgets etc that change the overall experience. Plus upgrades to the game engine and graphics play a part too. that is just my opinion though, and I am generally curious about your opinion. :)

    • October 29, 2011 at 03:14am
      In response to axlryder
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      People like what they like I suppose.

      I’m still not bored with zombie games for example.

      Funny enough, unlike King Walrus, I pretty much only buy shooters like these for the campaign, which is why you’ll never see me buying them at launch, I gotten all the recent CoD games for under 20 bucks each. I just don’t care about competitive MP, it’s just not for me.

      It just seems to bring out the worst in people, I don’t buy games to get online just to be insulted by racist 12 year olds.

    • October 30, 2011 at 01:14am
      In response to axlryder
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      yeah, but what about other genres like fantasy RPG’s, there are mostly the same, especially the free to play ones. oh, and how about racing games, most of them are all the same right? just like shooters?

      • October 30, 2011 at 12:58pm
        In response to richardfps
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        First of all, we’re not talking about online games here at all, that’s a whole different animal entirely. Anyway, look what happened to the JRPG. Same goes for racing games. They’re not nearly as popular or frequently produced as they once were. When the innovation and creativity stopped, so did the sales. You’ll notice that a lot of modern racing games also have a somewhat creative hook to help sell them. Sports games are obviously a bit different because people have more of a real world investment in what they represent, which allows the producers to be lazy. Fantasy WRPG still aren’t as released nearly as frequently as military shooters and tend to have more variety or creative ideas. I mean, I could easily tell the difference between Skyrim, Witcher 2, Fable. Not so much the case for BF3 and MWF and any other generic military shooter I can think of. I’m aware that all genres are guilty of this, but the military shooter is the only sub-genre I can think of that can garner such great sales while doing so little to innovate. Space marines are getting pretty fuckin’ old too. The only “shooters” that interest me are the ones that aren’t just shooters anymore. They’ve mixed themselves in with other genres (like Bioshock, deadspace, uncharted, Deus ex, Mass Effect etc. ) and attempted to actually do something different. Besides, to imply it’s okay for shooters to do it because other genres are guilty of the same is a tu quoque fallacy.

        • October 31, 2011 at 05:56am
          In response to axlryder
          VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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          I am in full agreement with you, in all honesty… I don’t pimp ARMA II because I get paid to, I write about it because it supercedes my military-shooter desire by measures I cannot express.

          The videogame industry is becoming more and more like the movie industry. The lowest common denominator is becoming increasingly more lucrative. Bad games DO get made, and they get made frequently for the risk/reward return. When gamers become tired of pretending to be people who demonstrate their skill (the unlock system is now ALL about making gamers feel better about their level of skill) in environments that are “realistic” we’ll see a change.
          I wonder about Michael Bay movies similarly.

          I would also counsel you to edit your litany of games that “actually do something different,” including Bioshock and Deus Ex.

          EDIT: upon re-reading, that last bit reads a bit bitchy. I apologize for my tone, I do believe I’ve been a little distracted and stressed lately. Mea culpa.

  5. October 28, 2011 at 01:16pm
    In response to Article
    VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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    -0

    I absolutely hate punkbuster. Back when I was playing a lot of PR I swear that stupid little application caused hours of grief because it doesn’t update properly, and even though I’ve opened all of the pertinent ports in my firewall to allow it to do its thing, it still would randomly boot me off of servers, not allow me to connect at all, and generally be unpleasant.

    As for the game, sounds good – but also sounds and seems a lot like BFBC2. I’m not sure jets & 64 player maps make it different enough for me to want to come back.. espescially since I played a ton of BFBC2. Not at $60.00 at any rate.

  6. October 28, 2011 at 12:49pm
    In response to Article
    VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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    Battlelog. That’s why this is the first Battlefield title I’m going to skip.

  7. October 28, 2011 at 11:36am
    In response to Article
    VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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    I’m really enjoying this one. I can really see why people dislike Battlelog though. It can be a nuisance having to load Orgin, a Browser, just to click on the game, even for single player.
    That said, I really do like the game.

  8. October 28, 2011 at 10:54am
    In response to Article
    VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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    Awesome I was hoping to see your review of this game, great as always.
    And to the comment from Lowlander about Payday Id say that both games are great multiplayer games but are apples and oranges when compared, I think there is space to enjoy both games multiplayer separately but equally.

  9. October 28, 2011 at 08:59am
    In response to Article
    VN:F [1.9.15_1155]
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    I’ve got Payday to fill my multiplayer needs, thanks.

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